New Speakers Advice

[altamira]

For music listening, yes. For mixing and monitoring, you can do a good job and use a headphone or something to check the bass, but for music listening, it's simply too small with a lot of styles; and it's way over your budget.

Give us a real budget so we can help you, because "I'll add a subwoofer later" means it's not the same budget anymore.

Initially it was between 500-600 Euros as you can see by the first post. Then i increased around more 100 Euros because it seems that it was worth it to acomodate other options, like the neumann mentioned. For that you could say 700 Euros is my budget right now. Bare in mind that are some stores wich i can get discounts/sales/outlet or VAT exemption so a pair that costs 800 Euros I could get for 700 Euros or a bit less.

@LTig yes indeed it is for desktop use. Like you said going to bigger neumann´s or genelec its out of my budget.

As i said im talking about a 12 square meter basement room.

Is the Dynaudio BM5 MKIII or LYD´S mentioned by @musicaddict an alternative with more bass and good sound quality? Anyone has experience with them? Otherwise you can suggest one or two besides Neumann and maybe tomorrow i can see if any shop have those to listen too.

My priorities are 1: Movies/TV series (wide genres), 2: Music (Jazz, funk/motown, classical rock, classical, sometimes electronic). Last games. I not always have time for games and im not a big gamer but it as its place.

Anyway for what its worth i send you a pic of my work place/Desk.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

dont buy anything too expensive for a desk setup like that, just a waste if you buy anything more than some logitech pc speakers honestly

 

[altamira]

why, no space or just the wrong space setup? or just because you are offended by those tiny Cambridge Soundsworks old speakers?

 

[daftcombo]

IMV the KH80 is one of the best speakers for desktop use (your application if I remember correctly). Sound and Recording compared them against the KH310 and were very impressed - in some respects they preferred the KH80 over the KH310. If you know you will add a sub sometime later then you can also use it for movies and louder music in a not to big room. My colleague uses 5 Genelec 8020a (similar size as KH80) with a sub in his (small) living room.

However if a sub is not an option and you need more bass then you need a speaker with a bigger woofer. The bigger Neumanns and Genelecs are out of your price range though. The JBL 308 would be a cheap solution but may be a problem on the desk due to hiss. But even then you may later want a sub for movies.

I can hear hiss 2 meters away from my JBL 305p mkII on piano recordings. I wouldn't recommend them for desktop use. I think that's why the whole line dropped in price recently.

 

[daftcombo]

why, no space or just the wrong space setup? or just because you are offended by those tiny Cambridge Soundsworks old speakers?

If you get anything big, your head will be in front of the tweeters, or in front of the woofer, but the sound won't melt properly.

I would not get anything bigger than the KH80, for sure.

Here a couple pics of how a guy set them up:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/1230784-neumann-kh80-dsp-very-impressed.html

 

[q3cpma]

Initially it was between 500-600 Euros as you can see by the first post. Then i increased around more 100 Euros because it seems that it was worth it to acomodate other options, like the neumann mentioned. For that you could say 700 Euros is my budget right now. Bare in mind that are some stores wich i can get discounts/sales/outlet or VAT exemption so a pair that costs 800 Euros I could get for 700 Euros or a bit less.

@LTig yes indeed it is for desktop use. Like you said going to bigger neumann´s or genelec its out of my budget.

As i said im talking about a 12 square meter basement room.

Is the Dynaudio BM5 MKIII or LYD´S mentioned by @musicaddict an alternative with more bass and good sound quality? Anyone has experience with them? Otherwise you can suggest one or two besides Neumann and maybe tomorrow i can see if any shop have those to listen too.

My priorities are 1: Movies/TV series (wide genres), 2: Music (Jazz, funk/motown, classical rock, classical, sometimes electronic). Last games. I not always have time for games and im not a big gamer but it as its place.

Anyway for what its worth i send you a pic of my work place/Desk.
View attachment 44662

Indeed, you don't have enough space/listening distance. In this case, I recommend three types of speakers:
* Near state-of-the-art speakers, that are "cheap" because of their size. This include the KH80DSP (730€/pair) and the Genelec 8020D (670€/pair); both should be quite similar, with the only difference being the use of a DSP crossover for the KH80, the longer warranty/better reliability and lower price of the Genelec. Personally, I'd take the Genelec.
* Cheap coaxials: I can think of the Tannoy Gold 5, which is still unknown (no reviews and no measurements), and the Fluid Audio FX50 (very flat on-axis), which would be a VERY good choice in your situation. Both are around 340€/pair.
* Cheap and small speakers: Tannoy Reveal 402 or Fluid Audio F4.

In the end, this leaves only three options, in my opinion: Neumann KH80DSP, Genelec 8020D and possibly the Fluid Audio FX50 (but you'd have to try this one in person, as hiss is a concern with cheap class D amps).
The two first are a bit overbudget, if you also count a Focusrite Scarlet Solo, but are really worth it.

 

[altamira]

thank you @q3cpma and @daftcombo. I see from the picture he put the subwoofer above the monitor. Anyway i will see how it goes without subwoofer and then if there is any need for a space remodeling i will look into that.

 

[daftcombo]

thank you @q3cpma and @daftcombo. I see from the picture he put the subwoofer above the monitor. Anyway i will see how it goes without subwoofer and then if there is any need for a space remodeling i will look into that.

If you have never used a subwoofer, you won't feel the need for one with the KH80.

 

[altamira]

Ok. So Genelec (560,00 Euros pair) or Neumann (625,00 Euros pair). we are getting there. Some nice stands to raise them around 30cm above the desk...

 

[q3cpma]

Some other things going for the Genelec: it's more configurable via the back switches, you're supposed to use the control app with the RJ45 port on the KH80.
By the way, those are incredible prices you're getting.

 

[altamira]

Some other things going for the Genelec: the auto energy save state is optional, while it's not on the KH80 and I've heard enough stories of it being annoying/going wrong and it's more configurable via the back switches (you're supposed to use the app with the RJ45 port on the KH80).
By the way, those are incredible prices you're getting.

the prices i get from thomann

 

[altamira]

these stands are enough for the job right?: https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_desktop_monitor_stand_dm2.htm

 

[altamira]

are isolation pads necessary to put below the monitors and on the stands? like these: https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_takustik_isopad.htm

 

[maxxevv]

Pads are needed if you intend to place them on some table/bench top. Stands are really for purpose of getting the speakers to project at the right level to your preferred listening position. So they are generally optional unless you cannot get to place the speakers in a nice position of the correct height.

Also, those pads can be found on Amazon.de too, for a fair bit less it seems.

To ADD:

If you intend to put the speakers on your desk, then I doubt anything bigger than 5~6" driver size will fit. Unless you intent to mount them on the wall or something of that manner. I use the JBL 360P MkII's. My desk depth is slightly less than yours but a fair bit wider. I actually find them a little on the obstructive side of the size spectrum. But may fit your desk space depth.

Something front ported may help in that aspect.

 

[q3cpma]

these stands are enough for the job right?: https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_desktop_monitor_stand_dm2.htm

I'd put a littlle bit more to get the DM3, those look really cheapo and 300mm is a bit too much as a minimum height. You don't need pads with the DM3 and the Genelec have integrated pads.

 

[altamira]

Guys can you care to comment on this: https://www.popsonguniversity.com/are-studio-monitors-good-for-music-movies-gaming-stereo/
i know that @q3cpma already commented on the yamaha and previously there was a talk about the Adam. Im i going overkill with Genelec or Neumann if i just want some good speakers for music listening, watching movies or play a few games (PS4/PC)? Genelec or Neumann sounds good stuff but im feeling that im going for surgical instruments for precise listening, audio critical production, im afraid of getting a to flat/neutral sound for the purposes. No i dont mean i have to go logitech but something in the middle no, something that can give me a pleasurable/fairly/harmonious accurate music listening but also media entertainment? Do i make sense? And above all i apologize for the indecisiveness.

PS: Also the JBL´s were mentioned before

 

[LTig]

these stands are enough for the job right?: https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_desktop_monitor_stand_dm2.htm

They are too high and I think the top plate is to broad as well.

For the Genelecs you can use a small adjustable microphone stand like the K&M 23320 which is adjustable from 22 to 35 cm (K&M is the Mercedes under the mic stand makers so I'm sure there are cheaper ones), just remove the ISO rubber stand.

For the KH80 I would make my own stands, consisting of 2 pieces of wood connected in 90 degree. One piece is the bottom plate, the other piece is longer but not as wide and contains a few holes for mounting the KH80 (they have 2 screw holes on the backside for this purpose). It can't get cheaper than this.

 

[q3cpma]

Guys can you care to comment on this: https://www.popsonguniversity.com/are-studio-monitors-good-for-music-movies-gaming-stereo/
i know that @q3cpma already commented on the yamaha and previously there was a talk about the Adam. Im i going overkill with Genelec or Neumann if i just want some good speakers for music listening, watching movies or play a few games (PS4/PC)? Genelec or Neumann sounds good stuff but im feeling that im going for surgical instruments for precise listening, audio critical production, im afraid of getting a to flat/neutral sound for the purposes. No i dont mean i have to go logitech but something in the middle no, something that can give me a pleasurable/fairly/harmonious accurate music listening but also media entertainment? Do i make sense? And above all i apologize for the indecisiveness.

PS: Also the JBL´s were mentioned before

This is basically bullshit. The only truth in this is that nearfield monitors generally use waveguides that can reduce dispersion a bit. But since you're using them as desktop speakers, you're in a nearfield situation, so that's what you need.
About sound "too flat/neutral sound for the purposes", that's mainly audiophile bullshit. Harman research proved some time ago that neutrality correlates with subjective preference. And as a more philosophical argument, sound reproduction (keywork being reproduction) is a measurable goal not affected by subjectivity; I'd rather wait for my ears to be used to the "true" sound than distort it purposedly.

If we recommend Genelec/Neumann, it's because you can buy their smaller models, and in the end, it'll be worth it. And because making good but small monitors is not easy. You'll never think about upgrading anymore and will be able to add a subwoofer if you want to go full-range. They're also manufacturing in Europe, are very honest with us by providing measurements and invest a lot into R&D; I don't know if this has weight for you, though.

 

[LeftCoastTim]

Some other things going for the Genelec: the auto energy save state is optional, while it's not on the KH80 and I've heard enough stories of it being annoying/going wrong and it's more configurable via the back switches (you're supposed to use the app with the RJ45 port on the KH80).
By the way, those are incredible prices you're getting.

KH80's auto shutoff can be turned off using the switch on the back.

 

[q3cpma]

KH80's auto shutoff can be turned off using the switch on the back.

Oh yeah, you're right.