Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

[Mark617]

There is no logic in that. How would they know something is bad without taking in to listen to in their place? How would they know how good a speaker is without listening to one that isn't? How would they learn anything if they don't experience bad designs?

There is only one reason: they want to keep getting (expensive) gear and no one would loan them such the first time they write a super negative review. They are not stupid.

Here is the other thing: they get plenty of bad stuff but they have little skill in figuring that out. Even when they do, they find a way to paper over the issues.

Any proper subjectivist reviewer would wait for the objective data in the case of Stereophile and if issues are found, analyze them subjectively. But they don't do that either even when their subjective impressions is at clear odds with the measurements.

I completely agree with @amirm. It seems to me that audiophilia has become a business in which manufacturers get a lot of latitude for bad or dubious claims and reviewers fail to call a spade a spade. As Amir says, this renders the body of published reviews useless to potential customers as they do not have the time to infer which products are bad by omission. Are we supposed to create a database of all products and subtract the “good reviews” to infer the junk? I reached the point that I do not seek reviews by Stereophile (only the measurements), TAS, youtubers in general (with some noted exceptions), etc.

 

[kemmler3D]

That mostly has to do with ad revenue and industry access, as well as time constraints, as the legality is largely settled in journalism's favor.

This is 100% it. I can publish a review saying that every speaker from [BRAND] is the worst I ever heard, and if you ever see one in a showroom, take a piss on it. This is 100% legal, but most brands are not going to give me ad dollars if I say things like that about their products.

Are we supposed to create a database of all products and subtract the “good reviews” to infer the junk?

I think the ideal / endgame / utopian vision of ASR and EAC and similar - (Spinorama.org is basically moving this way already) is to have a database of objective data that we can use to make up our own minds. And then whether reviews are good or bad or trustworthy or not won't matter as much because we'll have the facts, regardless of what anyone's opinion is.

 

[CedarX]

And Tekton hasn’t published measurements have they ?

Speculative: they may not have much to publish…

I would not be surprised if it is exactly what Eric Alexander bragged about: he uses a sim. package (and he may be pretty proficient at it), does a quick check by ear, and call it good! That’s how you develop 250 different models in 19 years…

The whole focus is then on the cabinet, fit & finish.
From Tekton website:

If this is the same David Evett:

CAD & 3D Modeling Software for Mac & Windows | Ashlar-Vellum™ Success Stories. Cobalt™ Delivers Speed & Savings

Learn how David Evett uses Cobalt CAD and 3D modeling software to deliver faster, more cost effective designs for his custom furniture and product design customers.

ashlar.com

He designs, among other things, high-end custom furniture (nothing wrong with that…).

 

[Axo1989]

I reached the point that I do not seek reviews by Stereophile (only the measurements), TAS, youtubers in general (with some noted exceptions), etc.

You've reminded me to have a Sunday scroll through Stereophile's front page.

 

[Duke]

From Tekton website:
View attachment 363627

If this is the same David Evett:

CAD & 3D Modeling Software for Mac & Windows | Ashlar-Vellum™ Success Stories. Cobalt™ Delivers Speed & Savings

Learn how David Evett uses Cobalt CAD and 3D modeling software to deliver faster, more cost effective designs for his custom furniture and product design customers.

ashlar.com

He designs, among other things, high-end custom furniture (nothing wrong with that…).

A couple of decades ago a company named Evett & Shaw made a high-end desktop speaker called the "Elan". I think that's the same "Evett". "Shaw" was Clayton Shaw, who later founded Emerald Physics, and then Spatial Audio, and now Clayton Shaw Acoustic Lab.

 

[Great Sun Jester]

A couple of decades ago a company named Evett & Shaw made a high-end desktop speaker called the "Elan". I think that's the same "Evett". "Shaw' was Clayton Shaw, who later founded Emerald Physics, and then Spatial Audio, and now Clayton Shaw Acoustic Lab.

That is another reason that I love this place. The collective knowledge is astounding.

 

[CedarX]

A couple of decades ago a company named Evett & Shaw made a high-end desktop speaker called the "Elan". I think that's the same "Evett". "Shaw' was Clayton Shaw, who later founded Emerald Physics, and then Spatial Audio, and now Clayton Shaw Acoustic Lab.

David Evett was apparently involved in this Ferrari Art speaker:

It don’t know if it’s related to the Tekton “1812 model V12”

 

[Axo1989]

Speculative: they may not have much to publish…

I would not be surprised if it is exactly what Eric Alexander bragged about: he uses a sim. package (and he may be pretty proficient at it), does a quick check by ear, and call it good! That’s how you develop 250 different models in 19 years…

The whole focus is then on the cabinet, fit & finish.
From Tekton website:
View attachment 363627

If this is the same David Evett:

CAD & 3D Modeling Software for Mac & Windows | Ashlar-Vellum™ Success Stories. Cobalt™ Delivers Speed & Savings

Learn how David Evett uses Cobalt CAD and 3D modeling software to deliver faster, more cost effective designs for his custom furniture and product design customers.

ashlar.com

He designs, among other things, high-end custom furniture (nothing wrong with that…).

That speaker certainly has a more upmarket presentation.

But I don't think I would trust Tekton to deliver something with innards or exterior fit & finish to do justice to the render.

 

[CedarX]

The feet are a huge improvement: no thru-holes !!!

 

[Axo1989]

The feet are a huge improvement: no thru-holes !!!
View attachment 363646

Haha, I'm not betting on that. But at least you won't forget to screw them on.

 

[Beave]

View attachment 363623Is it me? Or is this a magnificent Freudian mea culpa slip? Translate to: Your review/measurements don't square with what I know is misleading bs? Hmmmm... Maybe it's me. I wish my English teacher mom were still alive...

I was just about to post the exact same thing. It's a total Freudian slip.

"Publish measurements that fail to square up with what I know to be misleading"

 

[Newman]

View attachment 363623Is it me? Or is this a magnificent Freudian mea culpa slip? Translate to: Your review/measurements don't square with what I know is misleading bs? Hmmmm... Maybe it's me. I wish my English teacher mom were still alive...

Erin should test this by adding to his review a few words like this: "Eric Alexander is trash, just trash. And everything they do at Tekton Design is trash. Nothing but trash."

Apparently he will "tolerate it".

 

[diddley]

Erin should test this by adding to his review a few words like this: "Eric Alexander is trash, just trash. And everything they do at Tekton Design is trash. Nothing but trash."

Apparently he will "tolerate it".

definitly not a fan of Amir, as he is keeping his cards close to his chest.

 

[solderdude]

Looks like he apologizes to Erin....and everyone hurt or offended, which is about most people in the audiophile community who put (some) value on measurements and opinions of independent reviewers.

And no @Eric Alexander 'we' as well as 'they' are not missing your point. 'We/they' get your point. Your point, however, is based on your lack in understanding of the Klippel measurement method and wanting to control what is written about your products which MUST be positive only. You don't have measurements yourself and if you do (why would you not ?) it probably fails to show the same 'misleading errors' by lack of accuracy and above all failing to include polar effects at a listening spot.

And yes, do feel obligated to speak up... but keep it civil and constructive and don't threaten or try to 'silence' them but come with undeniable proof in the form of measurements.

And yes, 'we/they' will be critical of your products. Alas this also includes your persona. At least you partially succeeded in that Erin will never measure anything you make/made ever again and probably scared of Amir as well.
I don't agree with how you handled this, all that happened is on YOU ... well... on your condescending and dismissive behavior based on 'your understanding' of speakers.

I also don't agree with all the trashing of your products (they seem good and 'different') and trash-talk of you (even if the talk about you is 'somewhat' deserved) and don't think either Amir nor Erin trashtalked about you but did comment. Some of the deeply offended readers did. Freedom of speech has some downsides as well but lets face it... if YOU had been 'nicer' there would be no trashtalk and you would have gained respect from Erin's and Amir's communities if you had come forward with measurements, even if in private only, and accepted (tolerated ?) the outcome of the reviews.

What you wrote here is 'half an apology' because you still question the measurements and findings. You only seem to have apologized for the stress you caused to Erin (and anyone else that feel offended/hurt. It's a lame apology.

 

[Victor Martell]

I have seen several magazine reviewers openly say that they won’t publish reviews of products they can’t recommend.

Not a native speaker so trying to phrase so my question is understood - apologies if I don't make sense.

In general, if the situation posted above is true, how generalized is this? Can we assume if a device/product in the audio world has no or few reviews it means that reviewers are declining to publish negative reviews?

My first instinct is to try to promote this idea, in order to punish those companies that suppress negative reviews. Then I realized that I was talking stupid.

Sure, that can happen, but it also punishes the smaller manufacturers/vendors that do not have enough clout and/or resources to get their products to reviewers - even if their products are EXCELLENT.

So what are we to do if suppression of negative reviews becomes prevalent?

 

[Thomas Lutro]

I have seen several magazine reviewers openly say that they won’t publish reviews of products they can’t recommend.

I keep hearing the same.

We've been fortunate enough here in Norway to have a fairly small population (think half of London/LA/NY), and some degree of transparency for that. Everybody in the business knows, or at least of, each other. Veteran enthusiasts are often very well informed about goings on through back channels. We have had a chat or to with the writers for the few publications we've had, and have. Hardly anyone makes significant money from writing about hifi, but many get to play around, try things out, and partially pay for their hobby this way. They tend to want to write about things they'd otherwise like to audition for personal purchase.

People have been very vocal in the debate on who is served by the audio press, how, and desires for change. There have been some quarrels over the years. Between the "press" and the readers, and between the "press" and the manufacturers/importers/retailers. With a market so small, the press is likely more vulnerable to witheld advertising and test objects, and the potential social strains of a negative review. We also have the phenomenon of "reference clients", people with visibility in the forum(s), and a reputation get generous discounts for writing about their purchases.

It's sticky, but transparent to those who've been in it for a while. Completely impossible for anyone starting out, or with more of the "I like music, and want to get a proper stereo" approach.

 

[Mnyb]

Speculative: they may not have much to publish…

I would not be surprised if it is exactly what Eric Alexander bragged about: he uses a sim. package (and he may be pretty proficient at it), does a quick check by ear, and call it good! That’s how you develop 250 different models in 19 years…

The whole focus is then on the cabinet, fit & finish.
From Tekton website:
View attachment 363627

If this is the same David Evett:

CAD & 3D Modeling Software for Mac & Windows | Ashlar-Vellum™ Success Stories. Cobalt™ Delivers Speed & Savings

Learn how David Evett uses Cobalt CAD and 3D modeling software to deliver faster, more cost effective designs for his custom furniture and product design customers.

ashlar.com

He designs, among other things, high-end custom furniture (nothing wrong with that…).

Wow that 4 weeks per design with no vacation ever . No prototypes there . Wait there are use the customers for testing and then you have to run a business and build these ....

Suppose some of these are iterations of older designs so it migth not be as bad as it looks . You undo some of the ills of the express development in mk2 ,3, 4 versions ?

KEF could serve as model here they are basically doing the same speakers series over again at some years interval.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Is this a better outcome? If if becomes ‘the’ rule, Amir wouldn’t have published his review of the M-Lore (because not recommended) and some would say Erin’s story was self-inflicted (why publishing a review if you can’t clearly recommend the product?)

Not publishing reviews of poor products is already the rule. The arguments I've heard:

• People don't want to read about bad products (not sure that's true)
• We rely on advertisments to make a living (true)
• Just returning / not writing about products that they can't recommend is the least dramatic course of action, and will avoid burning bridges with the manufacturer in case of future, better products and/or advertisement revenue (makes sense)

Most audio magazines / online websites / etc get all their income from manufacturer advertising (even more so now than in the past where they had paper magazines they could sell).

I think it's at least a better approach to silently return the product and not writing about it than actively recommending poor products and outright lying just to make money.

EDIT: Let me assure you that this is not information I have because anyone have returned my products but rather through conversations with various review establishments.

 

[tomtoo]

And Tekton hasn’t published measurements have they ?

Dont know at least i have not seen any.

 

[solderdude]

People don't want to read about bad products (not sure that's true)

I think that is true for people already owning and liking the product.
Have seen quite a few ASR members liking some product ..., reading about it and selling it or suddenly hearing it isn't as good as they thought.
Eric does not want this to happen.

People do want to read it before auditioning or wanting to buy it and decide not to pursue audition or decide not to buy.
Eric does not want this to happen.