Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

[teched58]

That basically happened, yet here we are...

Permission from the manufacturer to do a review is NEVER necessary. It sets a bad precedent. Procedurally, it could shut down any site that engages in it, because sites want to publish fast. Manufacturers want to review stuff written about them slooowly.

Mainstream review sites like Consumer Reports and Wirecutter would never agree to "solicited" reviews because that's antithetical to journalistic culture. (Not asking whether ppl think this is good or bad, just reporting the way it IS and has been for forever.)

Of course Wirecutter, which is owned by the NYTimes, and Consumer Reports have deep pockets and lawyers. Small sites don't. This is precisely why we have to hold the line and not let vendor intimidation win.

FWIW, VENDORS NEED THE OXYGEN PUBLICITY PROVIDES. If nobody writes about your stuff, nobody sees it, nobody buys it.

I can't tell you how many times during my 30 years in the electronics and computer trade press manufacturers pulled advertising after an article they didn't like. (These weren't even reviews. Just news stories where they didn't like the angle, or a quote, or something.) UNIFORMLY, these advertisers came back after they cooled off. Because they needed to reach the audience that the publication provided. P.S. This was when there was still advertising

 

[Scholl]

Erin's second video review has just been uploaded on Youtube.

"

 

[Golfx]

I was channel surfing and was intrigued by one of those TV preachers with the title of the sermon that day was “you don’t have to let Toxic people into your life”. He also included extended family members too. I always smile when remembering that quote. I would easily describe Eric personality as toxic.

 

[kemmler3D]

That basically happened, yet here we are...

I think what gets missed in this and the Lore review thread is that the actual strength of Eric Alexander's case was never a concern. Amir and Erin never actually did anything they could lose a case over.

You can't get damages because someone expressed an opinion about you, unless the "opinion" actually contains false factual statements. Even if this causes you to lose sales.

You can't get damages because someone published measurements of your product unless they were so inaccurate as to be blatantly false and negligent. Even if this causes you to lose sales. In this case, we know the measurements were quite accurate all along.

And of course, you can't get damages for "lost sales" because you took down your own listing on your website.

e: And after watching Erin's video, I'd say I'm pretty sure you can't get damages for personal defamation because someone points out a cabinet resonance in your product, whether it's real or not. (wow.)

The problem all along has been that it's impossible to know if Eric Alexander realizes any of this, or whether he'd just extort people by hiring lawyers anyway, or what.

 

[Hiten]

I am not talking about permission from manufacturer. But from the purchaser of the speaker who is owner. An explicit request for measurement by email and sharing the results in public domain. .
Before this incidence occured no one would have bothered but since litigation and legal battle came up I suggested as such for atleast small independant reviewers which amir was worried about. I honestly dont know if such emails and permission would stand if litigation arises but atleaset reviewers has something to fight.
regds.

 

[YSC]

Erin's second video review has just been uploaded on Youtube.

"

just read this, recently I am way too busy to read audio stuffs for fun. but after just seeing all those emails... even if that hum~ respectful designer, makes perfect speaker for $10 I will not pay a dime to him

 

[Lsc]

What do you mean by "leave the rest of us out of it"? The way Tekton tried to threaten Erin and Amir into submission potentially could have led to the end of any contribution of the two, or anybody trying to do objective reviews for the greater good. You are already "in it", @Eric Alexander made sure of that. Obviously we need to set and enforce clear and consistent boundaries. A legal fund could be such a tool.

I will contribute by not buying Tekton products. I was tempted several years ago but chose Revel instead and it looks like I made the right choice.

Btw, i never heard litigation and lawsuit not mean the same thing. After those ridiculous YouTube videos, it’ll be interesting how this affects his company.

 

[dfuller]

Well, look at that. Erin has receipts that he was threatened with legal action. The change in measurement axis and the feet made almost no difference - changes of maybe a dB at most.

@Eric Alexander you should be ashamed of yourself for what you've done.

 

[JohnBooty]

Oh boy.

I encourage everybody to watch Erin's updated review (linked above) but the summary is that he remeasured with properly installed feet and the measurements (as expected) barely changed.

The slight "cabinet resonance" that Erin initially identified really does seem to be unrelated to the missing feet. It's also worth noting that Erin never actually claimed it was audible, nor felt that it was a problem.

I'm saying "oh boy" because it feels like this is just going to encourage more idiotic nonsense from @Eric Alexander . If he didn't like the initial review... then this one sure won't make him happy. That guy really needs to take some sedatives or, better yet, understand that his "litigious" temper tantrum is what's causing canceled orders, not a (generally positive!) review posted by Erin that was backed by objective facts.

 

[Multicore]

Erin's second video review has just been uploaded on Youtube.

"

I watched the measurement presentation and the conclusion. I thought he did a good job, balanced presenting an adequately brave face with being honest about what it was like.

 

[sweetchaos]

I have substantial reach on ASR, looking at all the viewership from all of my threads.

My ‘passive speaker’ recommendation threads have 150k+ views, for example.

After seeing Erin’s video last night, I’ve now added a disclaimer to my post about this.

I encourage everyone to never buy from this speaker brand. This brand belongs in the graveyard.

 

[Multicore]

But if owner of the speaker has emailed the reviewer and said I want to test this, I understand your method/process of measuring and allow it to share it with public (audio enthusiasts) should work ./?

I don't see how an agreement between A and B mitigates a threat to either A or B coming from C.

 

[Cogito]

Here is a big question: has his intimidation worked? I can see every reviewer that reads what is going on here think twice about writing anything negative about a product. I will continue of course as I have but others? I can see fingers shaking as they write anything remotely not complimentary. And not just about Tekton speakers. But everything.

If this is true, we have a major setback here that we need to repair.

It didn't work... The backlash has been huge and a manufacturer's reputation has been tarnished (Rightly so). Looking at other forums and industry news, this incident has made the rounds and has been widely discussed. Important lessons are to be made here for the industry. Don't beat up the legitimate reviewer, take your licks and make a better product.

 

[YSC]

Here is a big question: has his intimidation worked? I can see every reviewer that reads what is going on here think twice about writing anything negative about a product. I will continue of course as I have but others? I can see fingers shaking as they write anything remotely not complimentary. And not just about Tekton speakers. But everything.

If this is true, we have a major setback here that we need to repair.

Well IMO they will make those who contact the reviewer to speak honestly with data stands out "look, this is the only speakers we have objective data on" so ppl buys more from those with available data from a thrid party, just like here in the holyland in far east, everything kept from any objective or negative reviews/opinions are usually the ones to avoid at all cost, your customer base will be aware.

This IMO is a two edged sword, you silenced some reviewers, yet you induced collecteral damage on those wasn't reviewed

 

[Mnyb]

It didn't work... The backlash has been huge and a manufacturer's reputation has been tarnished (Rightly so). Looking at other forums and industry news, this incident has made the rounds and has been widely discussed. Important lessons are to be made here for the industry. Don't beat up the legitimate reviewer, take your licks and make a better product.

The bewildering part is that it was not a bad review , some issues where mentioned . It's was balanced and a bit positive ?
Every review can and do contains some errors as a mfg you can just mention that be hapy for the fair and positive review and move on ? not this guy ?

 

[MoStyles]

With so many great speaker manufactures out there, it's easy to pass on Tektons in the future. We don't need that kind of behavior in the audio industry.

 

[kemmler3D]

That guy really needs to take some sedatives or, better yet, understand that his "litigious" temper tantrum is what's causing canceled orders, not a (generally positive!) review posted by Erin that was backed by objective facts.

Maybe we could put him in touch with a good life coach.

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

Now that this Troubadour story is concluded, I'd love the discussion to return to Amir's original question about the suitability and community appetite for a general legal defense fund. This is my 2 cents as a practising lawyer and an EE by training. I've served on the board of a not-for-profit and I belong to two different regulated professional associations.

1. I would be very worried about the effectiveness and public acceptance of a general legal defense fund, a fund that is a pile of money amassed before actual litigation. This opens such a huge can of worms. Who holds the money? Amir in a regular bank account? A lawyer in a trust account? Gofundme? How can the money be used? Only on costs directly related to actual litigation? What about general legal advice or incorporation, not related to actual litigation but which is intended to minimize liability exposure? These are typical costs of running a business, not defending a lawsuit. Will there be rules about arms-length relationships with retained lawyers (can't hire a buddy or family)? Will there be rules about minimum competency (can't hire your estate or tax lawyer to do defamation), or maximum billable rate? Who manages the fund and who is allowed to dip into the fund? If no actual litigation happens, is money returned to contributors after a certain amount of time, or is it kept in the fund for future possible lawsuits?

I do not mean to impugn the integrity of Amir, Erin, or anyone else, but I don't feel comfortable contributing to this type of fund simply due to the potential for abuse, mismanagement, or reputation-damaging scandal.

2. A less risky alternative would be to set up a Gofundme only after a suit is filed in court. Decent people don't set up a cancer Gofundme simply because of family history; they do it after a diagnosis. The fund would be constrained to a specific case (and appeals) and unused money would be donated to a charity specified at the creation of the fund. Some of the concerns in 1. should still be managed here, but the specific nature of this fund makes it more palatable to me, personally, to accept the risks.

3. A trade association with dues and insurance. I don't think the membership would be big enough to make this viable, but others would know better than me.

 

[No one who matters]

Random takeaways of late:

Act like an ass, you’ll be treated like one. The only thing that makes someone look like an ass is actually being one.

To get respect, first give it to others.

Life’s too short to spend it with jerks. But when jerks decide to spend their time with you, gird thy loins.

There’s no good faith unless both parties exercise it.

When they go low, you go high.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Brand value is entirely tied to goodwill. Goodwill is tied to being easy to love, admirable and trustworthy.

Easy to love, hard to love. Which do I want to be, and how do I ensure it?

It takes a long time to earn a reputation and an instant to lose it.

Making something of a nothing burger reflects on the one making the patty, not the one forced to eat it.

A frog in the well knows nothing of the great ocean.

When digging a hole for one’s self, if the dirt starts falling back in on you, you’ve dug too deep. Put down the shovel, and ask for a rescue.

A great many people are considering the meaning of integrity, and that’s a very good thing.

All the best.

 

[ta240]

To paraphrase an old saying: better to have people think you are, than to open your mouth and prove them right.

The bewildering part is that it was not a bad review , some issues where mentioned . It's was balanced and a bit positive ?
Every review can and do contains some errors as a mfg you can just mention that be hapy for the fair and positive review and move on ? not this guy ?

From the start it baffled me that he didn't just go with the "I don't design speakers to be measured, I design them to be enjoyed". He could have made a video with that statement and then pointed out his issues with the feet and the distance for the tweeter measurements.