EERecordist
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If you are brave, provide real time & peak error read/corrected/covered on the front panel.
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Help Shape Our Upcoming CD Player for 2024
- Thread starter Fosi Audio
- Start date
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- fosiaudio fosiaudiocd fosicd
Watire
Member
For the sake of the conversation, here is an info screen mockup based on a 256x64 resolution canvas. It is a very easy part to find in OLED format.
OP
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- Thread Starter
- #63
Thank you for your advice. However, for a compact CD player, the LED screen may be not large enough to display that much information.
Watire
Member
I hear you.
As far as design and ergonomics went back then, Technics brought iconic devices in the early days of CD. The portable Technics SL-XP7 was provided with wider LCD screen than the Philips and Sony propositions.
Once you go physical media and mechanical device, the constraints are many.
Your commitment to have a box that compliment esthetically the V3 and the ZA3 gives the assurance you cannot go wrong, even if you end up on the minimalistic spectrum.
Consistency is a virtue.
As far as design and ergonomics went back then, Technics brought iconic devices in the early days of CD. The portable Technics SL-XP7 was provided with wider LCD screen than the Philips and Sony propositions.
Once you go physical media and mechanical device, the constraints are many.
Your commitment to have a box that compliment esthetically the V3 and the ZA3 gives the assurance you cannot go wrong, even if you end up on the minimalistic spectrum.
Consistency is a virtue.
Hi,
Focus on what seems to me to be the basis of a cd player.
Gapless playback, and overall full Red Book support would be a requirement - think playing classical cd or dark side of the moon. It's something that is lacking from all shanling cd player (except the et3, but it's +700$). This is what prevent me from buying their ecmini or ec3 player. It seems like it should be an obvious feature, but it's not - tangent cd doesn't support it neither.
Bit exact digital output - coax -, because that seems to not be the case for all players, see the review of the cayin mini cd mkii.
Card/usb reader - from mp3 to flac - would be be very nice as well.
Use of the screen to display artist, song name and number.
A 12v trigger would integrate well with your za3 amp.
I'd rather have full control with buttons/knob than remote, as those are always a pain to find. Or else go through the app way as our phone are always around. Overall, that wouldn't be a deal breaker.
I really don't care about having yet another DAC in my system, I really think that a pure high quality transport should be the main focus of a cd player. Everybody has too many dac anyway.
So full red-book support, digital coax output with bit perfect output, card reader, cd-text display, small size, a nice look for ~100$, a 12v trigger for some more dollars and you make it an uniq device. That's what should exist nowaday IMHO.
Regards,
Focus on what seems to me to be the basis of a cd player.
Gapless playback, and overall full Red Book support would be a requirement - think playing classical cd or dark side of the moon. It's something that is lacking from all shanling cd player (except the et3, but it's +700$). This is what prevent me from buying their ecmini or ec3 player. It seems like it should be an obvious feature, but it's not - tangent cd doesn't support it neither.
Bit exact digital output - coax -, because that seems to not be the case for all players, see the review of the cayin mini cd mkii.
Card/usb reader - from mp3 to flac - would be be very nice as well.
Use of the screen to display artist, song name and number.
A 12v trigger would integrate well with your za3 amp.
I'd rather have full control with buttons/knob than remote, as those are always a pain to find. Or else go through the app way as our phone are always around. Overall, that wouldn't be a deal breaker.
I really don't care about having yet another DAC in my system, I really think that a pure high quality transport should be the main focus of a cd player. Everybody has too many dac anyway.
So full red-book support, digital coax output with bit perfect output, card reader, cd-text display, small size, a nice look for ~100$, a 12v trigger for some more dollars and you make it an uniq device. That's what should exist nowaday IMHO.
Regards,
DanielT
Major Contributor
There are competitors to Fosi. An example, for around $120 you can get a player with digital output that also has:
About This Item
- Stunning picture with 4K upscaling (24p)
- Enjoy fast, stable streaming from a variety of internet video services
- Listen to music and watch videos via Bluetooth® with LDAC quality
- Stream music wirelessly around your home with Sony l Music Center Link
- Built-in Super Wi-Fi for a strong wireless signal
About This Item
- Stunning picture with 4K upscaling (24p)
- Enjoy fast, stable streaming from a variety of internet video services
- Listen to music and watch videos via Bluetooth® with LDAC quality
- Stream music wirelessly around your home with Sony l Music Center Link
- Built-in Super Wi-Fi for a strong wireless signal
Last edited:
OP
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We do not think our CD player will be competing with this type of player. Instead, we will try our best to make a modern pure CD player our members will love.
And does not have a display
DanielT
Major Contributor
Sorry, I missed that aspect. I didn't check it that closely. That player is probably mostly meant to be connected to a TV, and/or operated via apps and so on. Features that are probably not in demand for what is being discussed in the thread.And does not have a display
KomodoDragon
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Those first sketches look like some cheap toy. After a quick look on Aliexpress, I can’t imagine people paying much more than 75 Euros including shipping and taxes to EU. If there’s no track display, I think you should just drop the whole project.
What I would be using a mini-sized cd player for:
When traveling, for example to a summer cabin with my family, I could take that small player with me and facilitate re-discovery of the cds someone left there years ago. Player would be plugged into some system during day and into headphones by night.
Another use case would be when I or someone close to me is too sick to operate a complicated streaming device (wiim, qobuz etc on mobile phone). I’m currently using Shanling M0 Pro for this use case, and that one is absolutely not easy to use.
I think your device should be a lot more friendly towards elder people, than those early sketches would suggest. Some music loving people simply can’t use their hands with the same dexterity as teenagers. Operating the player should be significantly easier than for example getting a cd out of a jewel case. I know some music listeners who can just barely manage to do this. Operating a Cd player with a classic tray loading would be a joy, slot-in would be a challenge, and any setup resembling a 20 year old Sony walkman cd would dexterity-wise be absolutely out of the question.
My overall expectations for a decent cd player:
- Must be able to play all kinds cds gapless in any condition. You need to realize it doesn’t make sense to pay any money for your solution, if there are equally good cheap used players for sale for next to nothing. In my experience cheap used players have a tendency to perform worse with scratched discs, than a dvdrom drive on your computer. My current hifi deck plays almost every cd as well as ripping to a pc with a computer drive, so I know this is doable.
- Must have easy to see and use buttons to play/pause, skip tracks.
- Must have the same quality digital bitstream coaxial/optical output you get from wiim pro streamer, or any decent dedicated cd transport. It’s easy to find cheap rubbish dvd players that fail to get there.
- The player must be very near silent during playback. Again, there’s an abundance of cheap portables or home dvd players available that have noisy construction.
- Must have some sort of headphone output as a backup, balanced or high quality internal dac is not required. Many cds I would use are over 20 years old. They’re simply not mastered as well as the latest releases.
- If the player does not display track number and track time that can be easily read at 3 meters, from any reasonable angle, and without glasses, I’m not interested at any price. SMSL D6S dac has a brilliantly cear display, just as an example.
- I could live without remote. It’s possible someone would quickly lose it, if there was no storage for it inside the player or its travel case.
- I’m not sure if battery operation is necessary. If it doesn’t cost much extra, like 2x AA cells, then it sure adds some value.
If I were in your position, I would first make one cheap device. That would demonstrate your ability to create a working solution with no significant faults and its ability to compete with offerings from established brands. Keep it simple and affordable. If you can pull that of, then maybe it makes sense to think about getting into ”premium” audiophile solutions.
I’m not convinced any manufacturer should aim too high on their very first Cd player in 2024.
What I would be using a mini-sized cd player for:
When traveling, for example to a summer cabin with my family, I could take that small player with me and facilitate re-discovery of the cds someone left there years ago. Player would be plugged into some system during day and into headphones by night.
Another use case would be when I or someone close to me is too sick to operate a complicated streaming device (wiim, qobuz etc on mobile phone). I’m currently using Shanling M0 Pro for this use case, and that one is absolutely not easy to use.
I think your device should be a lot more friendly towards elder people, than those early sketches would suggest. Some music loving people simply can’t use their hands with the same dexterity as teenagers. Operating the player should be significantly easier than for example getting a cd out of a jewel case. I know some music listeners who can just barely manage to do this. Operating a Cd player with a classic tray loading would be a joy, slot-in would be a challenge, and any setup resembling a 20 year old Sony walkman cd would dexterity-wise be absolutely out of the question.
My overall expectations for a decent cd player:
- Must be able to play all kinds cds gapless in any condition. You need to realize it doesn’t make sense to pay any money for your solution, if there are equally good cheap used players for sale for next to nothing. In my experience cheap used players have a tendency to perform worse with scratched discs, than a dvdrom drive on your computer. My current hifi deck plays almost every cd as well as ripping to a pc with a computer drive, so I know this is doable.
- Must have easy to see and use buttons to play/pause, skip tracks.
- Must have the same quality digital bitstream coaxial/optical output you get from wiim pro streamer, or any decent dedicated cd transport. It’s easy to find cheap rubbish dvd players that fail to get there.
- The player must be very near silent during playback. Again, there’s an abundance of cheap portables or home dvd players available that have noisy construction.
- Must have some sort of headphone output as a backup, balanced or high quality internal dac is not required. Many cds I would use are over 20 years old. They’re simply not mastered as well as the latest releases.
- If the player does not display track number and track time that can be easily read at 3 meters, from any reasonable angle, and without glasses, I’m not interested at any price. SMSL D6S dac has a brilliantly cear display, just as an example.
- I could live without remote. It’s possible someone would quickly lose it, if there was no storage for it inside the player or its travel case.
- I’m not sure if battery operation is necessary. If it doesn’t cost much extra, like 2x AA cells, then it sure adds some value.
If I were in your position, I would first make one cheap device. That would demonstrate your ability to create a working solution with no significant faults and its ability to compete with offerings from established brands. Keep it simple and affordable. If you can pull that of, then maybe it makes sense to think about getting into ”premium” audiophile solutions.
I’m not convinced any manufacturer should aim too high on their very first Cd player in 2024.
- No, I want it to live on my desk
- Don't waste money on a DAC which is either going to be good and raise the price, or be crap to keep the price down
- Coax & optical; don't waste money on a headphone amp for reasons stated above
- If it doesn't add much to the cost, sure; I already have a drive for that and assume most people who rip CDs on the reg do as well
- Indifferent but wall power with a good brick sounds like the more quality way to go
- Yes, but consider making the remote optional as not all people will need it
PS: Ditto on gapless being mandatory. I can't believe we have to specify that.
Ze Frog
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Probably some Uber cool design, industrial and all metal. I'm assuming this is for Hi-fi rather than portable?
Be nice to see something with a bit of flair and generally different, also what about making it capable of playing blu ray and DVD's, like how Sony players can do everything including SACD?
With all the above features surely it would be at least able to command the price of a decent blu ray and be £300 worth.
Be nice to see something with a bit of flair and generally different, also what about making it capable of playing blu ray and DVD's, like how Sony players can do everything including SACD?
With all the above features surely it would be at least able to command the price of a decent blu ray and be £300 worth.
I would like a simple CD transport that is half the size of the Onkyo C-7030 that I am currently using in my office. Output options: USB, Coax and Optical.
No fancy screen needed, just a track number and time remaining for the track is great. Not battery powered. I don't want or need a portable CD transport. I have a DAP for that.
I guess what I really want is an Audiolab CDT6000 that is half the size, weight and price. Black or dark gray. Simple remote that is half the size of the very large remotes that come with the C-7030 and the CDT6000.
Not a top loader.
I would pay $250 to $300 for a CD transport with the above features.
No fancy screen needed, just a track number and time remaining for the track is great. Not battery powered. I don't want or need a portable CD transport. I have a DAP for that.
I guess what I really want is an Audiolab CDT6000 that is half the size, weight and price. Black or dark gray. Simple remote that is half the size of the very large remotes that come with the C-7030 and the CDT6000.
Not a top loader.
I would pay $250 to $300 for a CD transport with the above features.
Tell
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Fosi might be able to do that CD player I've been searching for for years now! A cheap, small that does everything you need.
Something like this:
Something like this:
- As small as possible
- Display with CD text
- Should be able to play CDs with MP3/OGG/Opus/etc
- No DAC, optical output is fine
- Top loaded with a transparent opening (lets see that disc spin!)
- A simple remote
- As cheap possible (aka no audiophile prices please)
- And a small bonus wish. Don't know if it's possible, but I find any player (hardware and software) feel way more polished if there is a small fade in fade out when pausing, playing, switching track etc. Somewhere around 100-500ms.
Watire
Member
Top loading does not integrate with ease a stacked system or inside a furniture.
For the few people that still hangs on to the medium a real gift would look like the Hitachi 1000.
The Hitachi 1000 - front loaded vertical cd player had most of the meaningful features checked. When it was playing it felt alive with the music.
But it would make big shipping boxes. Unless you go Roland Boutique Series sizes which is clearly possible.
Again anything less competes with cheap bluray players and second hand CD players. Out of the audiophile bubble of internet forums it will lose in mainstream shops.
By the way be ready for the complains if you release a 12cm optical disc player that do not support every format from RED-BOOK to CD-MQA ... SACD be damned.
IMHO.
For the few people that still hangs on to the medium a real gift would look like the Hitachi 1000.
The Hitachi 1000 - front loaded vertical cd player had most of the meaningful features checked. When it was playing it felt alive with the music.
But it would make big shipping boxes. Unless you go Roland Boutique Series sizes which is clearly possible.
Again anything less competes with cheap bluray players and second hand CD players. Out of the audiophile bubble of internet forums it will lose in mainstream shops.
By the way be ready for the complains if you release a 12cm optical disc player that do not support every format from RED-BOOK to CD-MQA ... SACD be damned.
IMHO.
Too hard to make top loaders work with most setups. I think they would lose sales if they go that route.
Tell
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Yeah probably, but I can still wish for it
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
CD player digital processor ICs have been doing fade up/down for well over 30 years, but it is much faster. Done to prevent nasty transients.
Whew! Have I heard a ton of crackling/staticky from CD DSP ICs.
No matter the type whether personal, mobile, home etc the DSPs where known to become noisy.
