Help Shape Our Upcoming CD Player for 2024

[antcollinet]

Well for me a lift up lid would rule it out from the start. Means it has to be on top of furniture, and can't go in a shelf. It needs to be a drawer (not a horrible push in slot). I'm not interested in analogue out - I use toslink or coax into DAC.

Price in the region of £100

And keep the SINAD above 100

A little optimistic for CD. Limited by the 16bits to a theoretical max of aprox 96dB assuming zero distortion.

 

[Count Arthur]

I want the moon on a stick and I want it for a tenner!

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Please add toslink/coax/i2s output so I can use it as a simple cd transport feeding my dac in a headphone system.
Remote control would be also appreciated.
Screen with basic info is mandatory I believe.

 

[OldTimer]

Well for me a lift up lid would rule it out from the start. Means it has to be on top of furniture, and can't go in a shelf. It needs to be a drawer (not a horrible push in slot). I'm not interested in analogue out - I use toslink or coax into DAC.

Price in the region of £100


A little optimistic for CD. Limited by the 16bits to a theoretical max of aprox 96dB assuming zero distortion.

No wonder the 24 bit 96 khz songs much better on my system, specially at louder volume.

 

[antcollinet]

No wonder the 24 bit 96 khz songs much better on my system, specially at louder volume.

Unlikely since 96dB is already transparent in real world listening.

 

[JeremyFife]

Digital out.
Mechanically satisfying - "feel" is important, nice action to the lid/drawer - no slot design.
Headphone out.
I have no opinion on the analogue out, although any internal DAC should be decent. I'd use it as a transport, for ripping CDs mainly.
Not expensive: certainly less than £200

 

[JCM800]

CDs rule! I love the size and form factor of the sketch shown. Perfect for a desktop system. Bu the thing I want more than a CD player is a CD transport. And I don’t mean a CD player w digital outs, I mean a box that does nothing but spins discs and accurately shoots 1s and 0s out the back to my DAC. For some reason these all cost $600+ yet you can buy CD players for a nickel. Makes no sense. An affordable, barebones CD transport would be dreamy. An affordable bare bones CD player with digital outs would be a wasteful (extra unused parts, etc.) but appreciated second best.

 

[Prana Ferox]

You really need to define the feature set. These are all different products with different price points:

- A bare transport intended to go to a DAC, which the DAC can also cover headphone duties
- A bare transport but with wireless broadcast
- Something intended primarily to feed a DAC, but has a vestigal D/A converter, headphone jack, analog outs.
- Something with a serious D/A conversion and serious headphone amplification. The problem here is you add cost (and size etc) that turn off the people that just want a transport

My takes:
- People who care about TOTL headphones will have a standalone DAC and amp. You could even make this as part of a stack
- You need at least some extremely basic display to select tracks
- BT or any fancier wireless usually needs more controls and display. This looks like a minimalist design and I don't see that fitting. It'd be neat if it had an app that could cast to Sonos-type devices or Apple speakers but that sounds like a complicated BOM add

CDs rule! I love the size and form factor of the sketch shown. Perfect for a desktop system. Bu the thing I want more than a CD player is a CD transport. And I don’t mean a CD player w digital outs, I mean a box that does nothing but spins discs and accurately shoots 1s and 0s out the back to my DAC. For some reason these all cost $600+ yet you can buy CD players for a nickel. Makes no sense. An affordable, barebones CD transport would be dreamy. An affordable bare bones CD player with digital outs would be a wasteful (extra unused parts, etc.) but appreciated second best.

This is largely my take. IMO what the market needs are transports, because there are a zillion DACs and headphone amps already out there, including some by Fosi. A vestigal DAC and line-level analog outs adds to versatility without too much cost, but I would market this as secondary to the digital outputs and not try to get it perfect. It's Red Book Audio anyway. I do think it needs -some- sort of display.

If you add a USB out that's good, but then I expect to plug it into a PC and use / control it as a CD drive. Considering I can buy an entire USB DVD drive unit for like $15 I wouldn't think that adds to the BOM, but I'm not the builder.

 

[Fosi Audio]

Hi there!
We appreciate numerous valuable suggestions from members. Based on many users' feedback, we've formulated four development proposals.
We would greatly appreciate it if you could take some time to choose the option you believe Fosi should pursue for development.
Feel free to leave any additional suggestions there. (No personal information will be collected in the survey.)

Fosi Audio CD Player Research

After conducting extensive user research on CD player over this period, we have identified four potential design options. Each of these options focuses on different features and performance aspects. We would like to know which of these options you would prefer for Fosi Audio's first CD player...

docs.google.com

 

[Hollywood_Bob]

Hi there!
We appreciate numerous valuable suggestions from members. Based on many users' feedback, we've formulated four development proposals.
We would greatly appreciate it if you could take some time to choose the option you believe Fosi should pursue for development.
Feel free to leave any additional suggestions there. (No personal information will be collected in the survey.)

Fosi Audio CD Player Research

After conducting extensive user research on CD player over this period, we have identified four potential design options. Each of these options focuses on different features and performance aspects. We would like to know which of these options you would prefer for Fosi Audio's first CD player...

docs.google.com

I dont like any of your options.

I don't use any streaming services, and all my music listening is from cd's (bought at low price from Amazon, Ebay and Discog), usually ripped by Foobar onto my PC, where I use a parametric eq to output to my dac.

Right now I am using the parametric EQ that's in the free GG from Steelseries.

I don't need portable; I don't need battery power. I use my cell phone for portable.

I already use, and can buy, an older model, new Sony dvd player with a remote, display and digital out, for 44$ Canadian on Amazon.ca.

I would consider buying a simple cd transport (good quality laser and buffer) with a display, digital out and a remote. Preferably top loading so no problems with a malfunctioning cd drawer.

But I doubt you can compete with the price of a Sony dvd player.

 

[Fosi Audio]

I would consider buying a simple cd transport (good quality laser and buffer) with a display, digital out and a remote. Preferably top loading so no problems with a malfunctioning cd drawer.

OK, I get what you want. Thanks for your advice.

 

[OldTimer]

Hi there!
We appreciate numerous valuable suggestions from members. Based on many users' feedback, we've formulated four development proposals.
We would greatly appreciate it if you could take some time to choose the option you believe Fosi should pursue for development.
Feel free to leave any additional suggestions there. (No personal information will be collected in the survey.)

Fosi Audio CD Player Research

After conducting extensive user research on CD player over this period, we have identified four potential design options. Each of these options focuses on different features and performance aspects. We would like to know which of these options you would prefer for Fosi Audio's first CD player...

docs.google.com

Option A because the most affordable. No problem to charge it every 4 to 6 hours being used.
Can transmit USB audio, Airplay 2, Spdif Coax.

 

[Eleo]

I favor option A with USB out. Currently, I'm using a very cheap DVD player hooked to the PC with EQ Apo. The main concern is mechanical noise when music is playing. I'm seeking a basic device, therefore no DAC, USB out, and no noise.

 

[radix]

I'm not sold on an of those options. here's my take.

1) Make the form factor fit with your product line so it looks good and stacks well, e.g. with a DA2120 line.
2) Come out with a remote that integrates your preamp and CD control. 1 remote for everything.
3) It should have a trigger IN from the preamp.
4) TOSLINK. I understand that you likely need RCA out too for compatibility with your full product line.
5) A display that shows track information. Dimmable.
6) Quick disk load and spin up.
7) Balanced out is OK, but I think most would want toslink, as they already spent $ on a DAC in another system.

I don't know why someone would run a CD player directly to speakers. Who wants to be limited to that, unless its like the JBL 4309P that has a preamp built in with multiple inputs. I would want a preamp or streamer that I can connect the CD to.

 

[Svet Angelov]

150-165 euros max.

-Remote should be a step above the cheapest plastic ones found in many budget dacs & amps (so, let's say, something akin to the Yamaha remotes)
-ONLY toslink (will keep the price down? not sure by how much) - as others have said, chances are that potential buyers already have a DAC in their system. So basically just a transport.
-Basic, legible, display. Doesn't have to be anything fancy.
-No mechanical noise.

I'll be the first one to buy it!

 

[etimal]

Hi,
long time reader, never written a message. But I'm currently looking for that kind of device, so let's do it !
As the owner of a decent DAC / headphone amp (ADI 2 DAC-FS), I only wish for a reliable CD transport with an optical digital output delivering the best possible signal to this DAC.
Ah, and a display and a remote, of course ...
That's all !
Regarding the price, under $200 seems a realistic goal, when compared to what other hifi devices cost these days (that's about the price of a very correct Topping / SMSL DAC, for example)
I'll follow this thread with a lot of interest !

 

[Watire]

To expand on @etimal 's take.

What makes a CD Player is not that it is playing CDs. A lot of devices do. Portable players do it very poorly.

What makes a CD Player is its use of the features allowed by the medium.

Which is exactly what most disc players on the market right now do not offer since it starts with a full informative display.
The japanese brands dropped the ball years ago. Every single recent asian effort missed the point or showed a clear misunderstanding of record playing as an activity.

CD did not invent playing music, but it brought a way to do it better.
A real CD player is not living in the same dimension than a DVD player.
Maybe one has to experience it to understand the extend of this laconic remark.

The most defining features for a real CD player are:

• Direct Access to each track (meaning a dial pad!).
• Visualisation of the totality of the tracks available on the disc with an icon/number for each, on a indented line or a grid (meaning an info screen).
• Time and timing information in every possible situation : track, disc, sequence currently playing, elapsed/remaining.
• Custom sequencing of the tracks (meaning a program mode).
• Random Playing (meaning a random mode).
• Extract playing (meaning a scan mode).
• Repeat of selection, even within the random play mode that should support repeat too.
• A-B repeat of a section within any portion of the record.

It includes the legacy features :

• Quiet operation.
• Direct play from closing of the lid/tray/etc.
• That funny eject button (well ... it was fun in 1982-1984 ! Just search : Hitachi DA-1000)
• GAPLESS AUDIO PLAYING ... since it's not even a given anymore!

The only "modern" features truly needed :

• A great internal DAC/Headphone amp combo.
• Dual physical digital out (Optical and coaxial).
• Bit perfect digital Out (not just the internally produced upsampled then downsampled stream).
• CDR/CDRW and FLAC play
• 12v trigger since it's becoming a standard.

Having a CD Player doing DAC duties is neat but to add peripherical complexity and cost does not make it a better player; that's an orthogonal feature.

Today's Denon/Yamaha/Pioneer/Marantz/Tascam models do not bring even half of this feature set list that was a given on most of their own mid level players 30 years ago, and there were more to be had : digital volume, pitch control, fader, peek volume locator, etc.
Nowadays the portable gadgets we see online do not bring much more fonctionality than a $80 blue-ray player with an optical digital out. A point which does not erase the fetishist lust a MoonDrop DreamDisc can induce...

 

[Watire]

Design wise I am quite certain that the one who cares to use CDs in a "stereo" system today will mind having a peek of the disc spinning while enjoying the music. It came standard with the medium on the original machines. Who would want a tape machine or a cassette deck with hidden reels in 2024 ?
A large width OLED screen could bring most of the visualisation and informations a true CD player must provide.
A device with 20+ buttons probably will never happen again, but it sure would bring value on day one, remotes degrade with use.

A CD player should be focusing on exploiting the medium... no need to try plugging anything to it unless the chipset and the motherboard invites to it. The total absence of spatial cue of the reading position on the disc makes most modern player charmless, lifeless, very inferior, a part of what killed the medium.

Repurposing a current generic player platform won't create excitement. The worst inspiration one can get for designing a CD player is the esoteric models, quasi-transport only, that copied the "simplicity" of vinyl playing without the value added conveniance of the format and that omitted the spatial issues... that's a summary of every portable player on the market today.

A profound new CD player would please people that already have a vintage one, and seduce those without any player. Making a CD player for record lover in 2024 is not an industrial design issue (form), it's a software and interface one (functions).

The first sketches posted do not bode well to a meaningfull effort for a home setup direction. A good CD player will not arise from a SYITREN clone.

 

[sergeauckland]

If I were thinking of buying a CD player these days, I would want the functionality of the Meridian 207, but brought up-to-date. in other words, including a pre-amp so I could use multiple digital sources into the same DAC, and analogue sources. DSD capability. A phono input would be good, but probably not essential. Decent remote control, not just a generic stick, but perhaps this could be made an optional item. Rotary volume control, not up-down buttons. A display on the remote control would also be great.

Balanced analogue inputs and outputs, plus these days USB.

As to form-factor, standard 432mm by 88mm, with optional rack-mounts.

CD tray, not just a slot.

As to price, no idea, but probably up to £500.

S.

 

[radix]

B&O had some beautiful CD players, like the Beosound 9000. It would do things like always stop the CD with it oriented face up, so all the labels were aligned. They also had a pretty sharp looking single CD player (the beosound 3200).

The insane design details of the Beosound 9000

Craftsmanship to the max

www.simoncross.com

Beocentral - BeoSound 9000

The definitive Bang & Olufsen reference

beocentral.com

But I don't know why someone would want to dedicate that kind of space to a CD player nowadays. It's just not the predominant format anymore.

I personally have a 1U rack CD player (a tascam). It's not fancy, but my main system is in a rack and that's why I wanted a 1U black inconspicuous device. And I rarely use it anymore. I find it better to rip the CDs and play them back lossless. A computer can rip it more accurately than a player can play it, especially if they are no longer in top shape.