New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[Simonluka]

Hai modificato il volume con MA1? Se è così, prova a impostarlo su 100 dB e vedi se risolve lo squilibrio. Sospetto che ci sia qualcosa che non va nel controllo del volume, non nell'allineamento stesso.

Yes, I actually set the volume to 65dB.. However, I wonder how the volume might influence...
I'll try setting it to 100dB, but even if it resolves the imbalance, it would still be so abnormal.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Yes, I actually set the volume to 65dB.. However, I wonder how the volume might influence...
I'll try setting it to 100dB, but even if it resolves the imbalance, it would still be so abnormal.

Yes, that would be a bug. It is just a thought, i don't know if this works.
If you made the alignment with the mic perfectly in the center at first measuring position, the sound is supposed to be perfectly centered. If it isn't something is wrong somewhere.

 

[Simonluka]

No, nothing changes, whether you set 100dB, 120 dB or 60 dB.
Meh

 

[audafreak]

No, nothing changes, whether you set 100dB, 120 dB or 60 dB.
Meh

Check volume with pink noise and some mic measurement. If volume is the same then check your ears.

I hear the same "problem", right is different/louder/brighter then left.
But also my ears have different sensitivity and frequency characteristics.

There are tools on the web to check your ears. Even Samsung and maybe other phones had possibility to calibrate headphones in audio settings. You can try this and then switch headphones left to right and you will hear totally differently and see it also graphically. Evidence that each ear is different.

 

[Simonluka]

Check volume with pink noise and some mic measurement. If volume is the same then check your ears.

I hear the same "problem", right is different/louder/brighter then left.
But also my ears have different sensitivity and frequency characteristics.

There are tools on the web to check your ears. Even Samsung and maybe other phones had possibility to calibrate headphones in audio settings. You can try this and then switch headphones left to right and you will hear totally differently and see it also graphically. Evidence that each ear is different.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that's the problem.
I use a few headphones and have no problem with any of them (so, luckily, my ears should be fine).
It probably depends on the fact that the walls behind and on the sides the monitors are not treated in the exact same way and there may be some small differences in distance; but I imagine that the calibration with MA1 serves precisely this purpose, that is to compensate for those small differences.
Unfortunately this is not the case....

 

[Ron78]

Unfortunately, I can't get any further because I don't know where the error is. The 5 KH80DSPs all have the same settings and I have also set them to the factory settings.

The Tascam 208i has 8 line outs and when I switch the speakers to these the "error" appears, see picture, but in the software of the 208i everything is set to the same settings.

I can't get any further with the "result" at this point, i.e. it's impossible to go any further.
I don't understand why the 2 channels have such a low level, everything is at the same volume etc.

Do any of you understand, this is now my 2nd attempt with a different interface and it still doesn't work.

 

[custom]

Hey, same problem here with a pair of KH-80s on a stand: after calibration, the volume of the right speaker is lower and to get the mono perfectly in the center, I'm forced to move from the listening point to the left (I could move further away the speaker to the right further, but it would cancel the measurement).
I have the impression that Neumann's MA-1+ software system has some problems...

I had the same problem in the past and the volume poti of my Focusrite audio interface has problems with the balance of the left and right channel.

 

[Ron78]

Okay, this is brand new actually, how was the problem solved? I think it's more of a routing problem or something similar. It is also interesting that when I change the sample clock source, it changes by -10db to -20db. I already had all of them at the same level, but according to the display I still couldn't get any further. A change to consumer level -10db is not possible, is it?

I think I have always been able to select MA1 here, the empty fields are virtually unselectable.

 

[astcal]

Okay, this is brand new actually, how was the problem solved? I think it's more of a routing problem or something similar. It is also interesting that when I change the sample clock source, it changes by -10db to -20db. I already had all of them at the same level, but according to the display I still couldn't get any further. A change to consumer level -10db is not possible, is it?

I think I have always been able to select MA1 here, the empty fields are virtually unselectable.

Today when I tried to recalibrate with my setup, 2x KH 80 + KH 750, I ran into the same error message. I have to install factory software from Focusrite (my audio interface) to show everything. According to Neumann, https://www.neumann.com/en-en/ma-1-faqs/, you may want to try universal ASIO driver.

Question: with your calibration setup, if you play music/soundtrack, are you able to hear music from all speakers? If not, you may want to check your audio interface settings/configs

 

[Ron78]

With the new Behringer UMC-1820 interface, it worked out in the end, albeit with a lot of sweat and tears at the beginning. The MA1 was also found and the 10 channels in the MA1 software, 5.1 calibration was successful and the result is, as with 2.0, amazing again.

 

[Chnoeldh]

Hello folks.

Today I wanted to calibrate my KH120II (analog input) speakers using MA1 and the latest software installed on my Mac. Speakers and Mac are connected to the same switch. Both speakers were detected right away and I was prompted to install the latest firmware, which I did. So far so good. But when I start the calibration process the speakers go on mute (it even says “Muted” on the screen) and the software tells me, that the level is too low… no wonder. The speakers are connected through a monitor controller and I have checked that the level going to the speakers isn’t too hot in any way.

I have tried using different sample rates, switched to another audio interface, turned everything on and off multiple times, but nothing seems to help. Is it (yet another) bug or is it me doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Markus @ Neumann]

Hello Chnoeldh,

The software reads out the level which is applied to the input of the loudspeaker. During this process the monitors are muted since it isn't necessary to play out a signal.
In general it is usfeful to click on the question mark if questions occur. This FAQ section is contex related.
Here are some points which you can check:

• the input of the loudspeaker is not set to the according input.
  chose analog if your source is analog. If it is set to automatic and your measurement source should be analog ensure that there is no digital connection at the digital input with valid clock (disconnect any cables from the digital input of the loudspeakers)
• Inappropriate or failed audio connection from the audio interface to the loudspeakers or subwoofers.
• Audio interface outputs muted or level is too low

I hope that helps.

Best regards,

Markus

 

[Chnoeldh]

Hi Marcus

Thanks for the suggestions. The speakers are working just fine when being used with other applications. So neither the input level nor the connections seem to be the cause. It seems as if the software is muting the output of the speakers (the Neumann logo goes dim) for whatever reason. Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[quattro98]

Here's what I experienced with the MA1 calibration and my Mac. My interface is a Focusrite Scarlett Solo 4.

1) Analog (XLR) from interface to KH750, S/PDIF (coax) from KH750 to KH120 II speaker #1 connected to speaker #2 via S/PDIF. In this configuration, I can play music via the interface to the Neumann system fine. I was unable to get it to calibrate in this configuration. I think it was stuck at the level check screen, but I don't remember.

2) Changed to analog connection between the sub to each speaker. As expected, I can also play music via this setup, but now it allowed me to calibrate the system.

For regular use, everything is connected via S/PDIF to my Bluesound Node.

 

[Simonluka]

the software tells me, that the level is too low…

Have you tried raising the INPUT level of the MA-1? If the software says the level is low, I think you need to give more gain to the preamp the microphone is connected to

 

[Chnoeldh]

Have you tried raising the INPUT level of the MA-1? If the software says the level is low, I think you need to give more gain to the preamp the microphone is connected to

The input level is low because the speakers are muted - there is nothing for the microphone to pick up.

 

[MFlesh]

The input level is low because the speakers are muted - there is nothing for the microphone to pick up.

At the first stage where it test the output level it mutes the speakers. Just raise the volume. That's the way it works. Did my first calibration (120 II) yesterday and it made me confused too at first

 

[Simonluka]

At the first stage where it test the output level it mutes the speakers. Just raise the volume. That's the way it works. Did my first calibration (120 II) yesterday and it made me confused too at first

Exactly

 

[soundtrane]

licencse key issues:

I purchased the MA 1 extension on 2nd December from Thomann EU online, and was sent a license key.

I had a new Mac Studio which came preloaded with Sonoma. I initially installed the MA 1 on this OS. However, due to other issues and generally to avoid becoming a 'beta tester' for Sonoma, I downgraded the OS to Ventura, doing it the proper way (recovery mode, initialise internal ssd etc etc).

After this, when i installed the MA 1 software, the page came in which the license key was asked for. I entered the license key but the software kept going in a loop asking for the license key again and again.

I asked a guy who works with the local Neumann dealer and he tells me that a new license key would have to be gotten from Neumann factory in the case of a reformat and reinstallation. Really...

Well, i discovered all this on Friday 15th. The Thomann rep tried to help me by trying to reach Neumann, but there was no one there. I was asked to wait until Monday 17th, but then Thomann sent me an email stating that i should contact the manufacturer in the case of any software issues.

A few days later another guy from the local Neumann sales tells me there is a way to 'save the license key in the cloud' so it can be used again after a reinstall. Really...


I have a few qualms here.

This "get license key from factory' business is not only is this HIGHLY cumbersome, it is simply too much to expect me as a legitimate buyer who has paid for this software to experience down time of the kind i have faced. Why dont you switch to iLok or something if you are so touchy about the software being used differently from what you want (installed on a different machine or whatever).

The software DOES NOT provide ANY kind of feedback - i kept entering my license key and it kept going in a loop asking for the license key again and again. Could they have not programmed in a simple message to the user saying whatever the problem is and providing a path to a remedy??

The software help is accessed by clicking on a '?' on the top right corner, this leads to a webpage which lists out the procedure to use the MA 1 software. Even here - there is absolutely NO mention of 'new license key needed' or 'save license key in the cloud before anything'.

It has been mentioned here previously, there is no way to do a 5.0 calibration. Moreover the KH810 sub cannot 'participate' in a MA 1 calibration procedure because if does not have DSP even if it has a 7 channel analogue I/O with bass management etc., and is generally considered a higher model than the KH750, which has only a 2 channel analogue I/O.

Now, it is not a great assumption that EVERYONE in the world is on holiday at this time of the year, but please don't get me wrong - i am not holding a grudge against the people at Neumann for going out on a holiday... But i was not on holiday and I am sure, so were LOT of people across the world. I have had to waste a HUGE amount of time and i am still waiting for Neumann resuming work in 2024 for any resolution. When was the last time you needed to contact the manufacturer for a license key to reinstall software?, I dont recall this kind of situation happening even with Protools which was notorious being inflexible but it has been some time since they allowed a cloud based ilok...

I did have a work program chalked out and things were planned accordingly. In fact I made ALL the cables I would need even before the speakers and sub arrived, audio, AC power, as well as the CAT6 cables for the calibration process. When the speakers arrived, it took me and an associate less than a couple of hours to place the speakers and lay out the cabling and connect everything...

Markus from Neumann who posts here was very kind to respond to a private message from me here at ASR but he too was unable to find someone in Neumann who could help, many thanks to him for responding while he was on holiday...

I bought into the Neumann ecosystem only because i had a pair of Neumann KH120 first version speakers and i really liked them. Now i feel like i committed a gross mistake, i should simply got some other way of calibration (Sonarworks, Dirac, REW) or should have gone with Genelec.

-vin
Bombay, India

 

[unpluggged]

Moreover the KH850 sub cannot 'participate' in a MA 1 calibration procedure because if does not have DSP

How were you going to calibrate an all-analog speaker that has no DSP? And, BTW, there is no KH 850 model at all.