Something That Regularly Amazes Me

[Mean & Green]

Is just how damn good some vinyl records that have been on this Earth longer than I have, (I’m 44) can sound!

Today I played an original pressing of Who’s Next by The Who for the first time on my current turntable and it was just marvellous. I often have these experiences with other old records, I have original pressings of David Bowie’s Ziggy Stardust & The Spiders From Mars, Hunky Dory, Fleetwood Mac Rumours and so on and so forth. They all sound brilliant, much better than I think they have any right to.

I just find it quite amazing at times how these very old bits of plastic that have had a life (or maybe even a few lives before me) have such quality of playback - even when comparing to digital.

I‘d like to clarify I’m not one of those “everything is better on vinyl” types of people. I enjoy CDs and network streaming too, but for such an old and fragile technology with a primitive means of playback it can be pretty impressive at times.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I'm a little older than 44. I grew up on tube amplification and mono recordings. I have a few recordings from the '30s and '40s (pre-magnetic mastering), and for such an old and fragile technology with a primitive means of playback (78 rpm discs), it can be impressive at times.

I have them for the historical performances, but for regular listening, I'll take digital recording, mastering and playback any old day.

Jim

 

[DVDdoug]

You might want to digitize it ASAP because records do get damaged, even if you are careful.

Today I played an original pressing of Who’s Next by The Who

I had that album! I enjoyed it but I don't remember it sounding exceptional. And by the time I replaced it with a CD it had probably "degraded". Fleetwood Mac was famous for "good sounding" records... But the CDs sound even better!!! I probably have an early release of both CDs, and later releases may have been "loudness war" compressed. Still, I'd prefer the CD with no background noise and no other potential "vinyl problems".

There was a lot of inconsistency with vinyl and most records sounded mediocre... At least the rock/popular records... The rumor was that Classical and jazz records were better but that's not what I was listening to.

Even in the vinyl days I HATED the "snap", "crackle", and "pop", although it didn't seem to bother most people. And if it was MY record, and I knew exactly when that nasty pop was coming, I'd be anticipating and dreading the pop instead of enjoying the music.

 

[Mean & Green]

You might want to digitize it ASAP because records do get damaged, even if you are careful.


I had that album! I enjoyed it but I don't remember it sounding exceptional. And by the time I replaced it with a CD it had probably "degraded". Fleetwood Mac was famous for "good sounding" records... But the CDs sound even better!!! I probably have an early release of both CDs, and later releases may have been "loudness war" compressed. Still, I'd prefer the CD with no background noise and no other potential "vinyl problems".

There was a lot of inconsistency with vinyl and most records sounded mediocre... At least the rock/popular records... The rumor was that Classical and jazz records were better but that's not what I was listening to.

Even in the vinyl days I HATED the "snap", "crackle", and "pop", although it didn't seem to bother most people. And if it was MY record, and I knew exactly when that nasty pop was coming, I'd be anticipating and dreading the pop instead of enjoying the music.

Who’s Next is by no means an audiophile grade record, however considering the version I was playing was made in 1971 it was devoid of crackles, pops and other analogue artefacts. It had punch and was clean and dynamic, which for it’s age seems remarkable.

I also have digital versions of any albums I may have on vinyl, but sometimes it’s nice to hear the original version/mastering of a classic album.

If anything it’s more recent vinyl which seems to suffer the most with “snap, crackle & pop” IME.

 

[mike70]

With proper cleaning and care you can forget about "crackle / pops" on vinyl ... and I never listened to degradation. It will happen? Yes, of course, but (I repeat), with the proper care in a right adjusted system ... surely you won't have audible degradation.

And yes, a decent record sounds amazing ... as a bad mastered CD sounds awful.

I enjoy vinyl since 40+ years ... in my opinion, if you like the listening experience, is a great format. Obviously I respect every opinion, I only want to say mine ... as you mentioned your experience with vinyl. That's all.

 

[Mean & Green]

With proper cleaning and care you can forget about "crackle / pops" on vinyl ... and I never listened to degradation. It will happen? Yes, of course, but (I repeat), with the proper care in a right adjusted system ... surely you won't have audible degradation.

And yes, a decent record sounds amazing ... as a bad mastered CD sounds awful.

I enjoy vinyl since 40+ years ... in my opinion, if you like the listening experience, is a great format. Obviously I respect every opinion, I only want to say mine ... as you mentioned your experience with vinyl. That's all.

I agree fully.

I‘ve got records which have been played many times and I can hear no degradation. As for crackles and pops clean records stay clean when handled with care as you say.

 

[Moonhead]

I use to collect vinyl in my 20s and later found that especially classic rock albums tend to sound better on vinyl,
than CD’s or streaming, maybe because most of it is bad masters and you cant hear the upper harmonic’s with vinyl.
I where an obsessive collecter as a good friend of mine, and wasted a lot of money on it that I easily could
have bought a Dream speaker like KH420 instead, but I missed that boat and I have kids now.
My fathers generation that have been buying vinyl for years and still enjoying them I can understand,
not so much with these young hipsters doing it mostly because they wanna be oh so modern.

 

[Mean & Green]

I use to collect vinyl in my 20s and later found that especially classic rock albums tend to sound better on vinyl,
than CD’s or streaming, maybe because most of it is bad masters and you cant hear the upper harmonic’s with vinyl.
I where an obsessive collecter as a good friend of mine, and wasted a lot of money on it that I easily could
have bought a Dream speaker like KH420 instead, but I missed that boat and I have kids now.
My fathers generation that have been buying vinyl for years and still enjoying them I can understand,
not so much with these young hipsters doing it mostly because they wanna be oh so modern.

Perhaps they just like collecting something tangible?

As for me I grew up with vinyl from a young age CDs didn’t become I thing in my home until the mid 90s. As you’ve pointed out, often the original versions of an album can sound better on the LP than other formats so there is at least one reason for people to still get into it.

 

[Astoneroad]

Who’s Next is by no means an audiophile grade record, however considering the version I was playing was made in 1971

I saw them perform this live on August 2, 1971. It sounded incredible... the air was pungent... halter tops were the rage... and "we weren't gonna get fooled again...". Enjoy the notes while aloft... they always come to rest. Carpe Diem.

 

[Mean & Green]

I saw them perform this live on August 2, 1971. It sounded incredible... the air was pungent... halter tops were the rage... and "we weren't gonna get fooled again...". Enjoy the notes while aloft... they always come to rest. Carpe Diem.

I personally think Who’s Next is a masterpiece.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

The very highest frequencies on records degrade fairly quickly with regular play. This is based on my experience with aligning turntables in studios using test records with tones up to 20kHz. These test records had a limited life because of high frequency drop off.

Since most of us can't hear much above 10kHz and much of what's there is high harmonics, the degradation may not be very noticeable.

 

[Mean & Green]

The very highest frequencies on records degrade fairly quickly with regular play. This is based on my experience with aligning turntables in studios using test records with tones up to 20kHz. These test records had a limited life because of high frequency drop off.

Since most of us can't hear much above 10kHz and much of what's there is high harmonics, the degradation may not be very noticeable.

Interesting.

I must say I’ve not noticed any degradation and I can hear up to 15kHz, but then how much musical information is important at such high frequencies up to 20kHz is debatable anyway as you’ve said.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Interesting.

I must say I’ve not noticed any degradation and I can hear up to 15kHz, but then how much musical information is important at such high frequencies up to 20kHz is debatable anyway as you’ve said.

Exactly, if you ever look at the spectrum of a piece of music, it's heavily stacked towards the lower frequencies.

There's a brilliant thread ongoing on ASR about testing cartridges with a script. There are lots of "interesting" behaviours above 10kHz that don't seem to be too critical.

 

[Mean & Green]

Exactly, if you ever look at the spectrum of a piece of music, it's heavily stacked towards the lower frequencies.

There's a brilliant thread ongoing on ASR about testing cartridges with a script. There are lots of "interesting" behaviours above 10kHz that don't seem to be too critical.

I will check that one out thanks.

 

[mike70]

Maybe we "degrade" our ears in the same way ... LOL ... I have some records with many decades and they sound fabulous.

Also, I usually use "fine line" stylus cuts, that stylus gets more highs and details compared to ellipticals /conicals.

As always, theory is only equals to practice in theory.

 

[Tangband]

Is just how damn good some vinyl records that have been on this Earth longer than I have, (I’m 44) can sound!

Today I played an original pressing of Who’s Next by The Who for the first time on my current turntable and it was just marvellous. I often have these experiences with other old records, I have original pressings of David Bowie’s Ziggy Stardust & The Spiders From Mars, Hunky Dory, Fleetwood Mac Rumours and so on and so forth. They all sound brilliant, much better than I think they have any right to.

I just find it quite amazing at times how these very old bits of plastic that have had a life (or maybe even a few lives before me) have such quality of playback - even when comparing to digital.

I‘d like to clarify I’m not one of those “everything is better on vinyl” types of people. I enjoy CDs and network streaming too, but for such an old and fragile technology with a primitive means of playback it can be pretty impressive at times.

Most vinyl records made before 1980 used analog technology when recording, mixing and mastering . If you believe that some analog colorations is prefered to make the 2 channel illusion greater, then this might explain some of the great sounding recordings that was made 1960-1980. One of the bad things with digital systems was loudnesswar that destroyed the sound quality from 1982 - 2024 and gave CD and digital in general a bad reputation.

There also a possibility that the sound technicians during -60 to -80 was much more skilled than they are today.
Thay had to know how to do it, because they had only 4-8 channel when recording multitrack.

 

[Thomas_A]

The very highest frequencies on records degrade fairly quickly with regular play. This is based on my experience with aligning turntables in studios using test records with tones up to 20kHz. These test records had a limited life because of high frequency drop off.

Since most of us can't hear much above 10kHz and much of what's there is high harmonics, the degradation may not be very noticeable.

However, recent tests I’ve seen does not really show a rapid degradation but rather quite slow one, e.g. Ray Parkhurst long play test.

 

[617]

Is just how damn good some vinyl records that have been on this Earth longer than I have, (I’m 44) can sound!

Today I played an original pressing of Who’s Next by The Who for the first time on my current turntable and it was just marvellous. I often have these experiences with other old records, I have original pressings of David Bowie’s Ziggy Stardust & The Spiders From Mars, Hunky Dory, Fleetwood Mac Rumours and so on and so forth. They all sound brilliant, much better than I think they have any right to.

I just find it quite amazing at times how these very old bits of plastic that have had a life (or maybe even a few lives before me) have such quality of playback - even when comparing to digital.

I‘d like to clarify I’m not one of those “everything is better on vinyl” types of people. I enjoy CDs and network streaming too, but for such an old and fragile technology with a primitive means of playback it can be pretty impressive at times.

Most of Bowie's 'remasters' are really bad, and his later albums are also mixed far too loud. For his vinyl-era recordings, seek out the rykodisc editions (Au/gold editions if you can find them) they are really very good recordings. The later 'Abbey Road' recordings are not great in my opinion, but the official releases of Earthling and especially Reality are just uncomfortable to listen to.

And if you want to hear a really rough recording, check out Bowie's mix of Raw Power...I suppose it fits the album but it's crazy compressed.

I agree, vinyl is a miracle and a lot of fun, there's something magical about these historical artifacts having so much life and fidelity in them, which is why we should be diligent about preserving the best digital versions.

 

[mike70]

However, recent tests I’ve seen does not really show a rapid degradation but rather quite slow one, e.g. Ray Parkhurst long play test.

I agree ... and it's not the same to play pure tones to real music. Vinyl is much harder than people think, more today with fine line styluses (shibata, microline, etc) and lesser VTF than in 70s (conical styluses at 3-5 grams)

 

[WDeranged]

It is mind blowing how an inherently crippled format from so long ago can work so well. Lately I've had a few jaw dropping records that really show off what it can do. It is a shame they can't all sound like that.