Which would be better?

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Okay, I’m not a vinyl fan at all. But I have a few old records, and my son has started to discover physical media.

To cut a long story short, I’m buying a turntable, but one as cheap as I can get away with without it being a toy.

I think I’ve settled on this:

Audio-Technica LP60XUSB (Black)

Shop for Audio Technica LP60XUSB Black USB Turntable with Richer Sounds for expert advice and lowest prices guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

Okay, so it has a switchable internal phono pre amp. It will be going into a WiiM Ultra, which has two sets of RCA input, one phono, one line level.

Would I be better off using the turntables pre amp and the Ultra’s line level input, or the turntable’s standard output and WiiM’s phono in?

Please and thank you.

 

[Sokel]

For the absolute lower I could do I would get a Goldring GR1.2 (used obviously, not on production I think) for beer money (or even less) .
Fit a nice, fresh cartridge on it and you're good to go.

(no phono though)

 

[whereisbrian]

Okay, I’m not a vinyl fan at all. But I have a few old records, and my son has started to discover physical media.

To cut a long story short, I’m buying a turntable, but one as cheap as I can get away with without it being a toy.

I think I’ve settled on this:

Audio-Technica LP60XUSB (Black)

Shop for Audio Technica LP60XUSB Black USB Turntable with Richer Sounds for expert advice and lowest prices guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

Okay, so it has a switchable internal phono pre amp. It will be going into a WiiM Ultra, which has two sets of RCA input, one phono, one line level.

Would I be better off using the turntables pre amp and the Ultra’s line level input, or the turntable’s standard output and WiiM’s phono in?

Please and thank you.

I always use an external phono preamp. I find it easier to adapt the load to the amplifier input.
This one (mine), for example:

Préampli Phono Domino

Un préamplificateur phono haute performance MM/MC avec des réglages de gain sélectionnables. Fabriqué en Angleterre.

tisburyaudio.com

 

[JeremyFife]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry - differences are likely to be swamped by the limitations of TT and cartridge. Using the WiiMs phono frees up the line-in for something else and that would be my preference.
Just keep encouraging your son to play music

@Sokel I don't know that Goldring: looks like a Rega style deck - why the recommendation? Just curious

 

[JeremyFife]

Quick update - yes, I'd also consider an Audio Tecnica deck like the LP60. It's a good starter choice. If you have the option to upgrade the stock AT3600L cartridge for the AT VM95 range (E) is fine then I'd probably do that

 

[Sokel]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry - differences are likely to be swamped by the limitations of TT and cartridge. Using the WiiMs phono frees up the line-in for something else and that would be my preference.
Just keep encouraging your son to play music

@Sokel I don't know that Goldring: looks like a Rega style deck - why the recommendation? Just curious

It was a hidden gem back then at the dead-budget turntables.
The whole cost to it was like getting its tonearm alone or even less.

Same stuff like Rega P2, low mass, the works. You can find it for 60-70 euros if you're lucky although I see some crazy asking prices out there.
Original street price was like something 250 euro all included and even less for the GR1 which was also decent.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

So, as prompted by SWMBO.

You know those 'briefcase' style turntables, which are rubbish.

Does anyone make one that's actually any good? By 'any good' I mean entry level good (as per discussion above).

Cheers.

 

[mike70]

Do yourself a great favour and buy the lp3x.
It's a little more, but the improvement worth it ... also it have the vm95 cartridge already.

In other moment you only change the stylus for the microline and ... then tell me

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I ended up getting a used AT for £90. Very pleased. Ripping my vinyl perfectly. Comparing a couple of rips to CD rips (80s CDs, pre-loudness wars) and the sound quality holds up well enough.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

 

[DSJR]

Can I do a quick P.S. on this thread for anyone else interested?

After my shock in discovering that the AT91 and AT3600L are arguably exactly the same thing, one specified for around 2g tracking and the other at 3g or so, I came across this (don't ask how or why, 'cos I can't remember )

Audio Technica ATN3600LE Replacement Stylus for AT3600L

The Audio Technica ATN3600LE Replacement Stylus for AT3600L features an elliptical stylus as an upgrade to the standard conical stylus.

www.hifix.co.uk

An 'official' elliptical stylus for the AT91/3600L/Rega Carbon (conical version with aluminium cantilever was around for a short while as an AT91R). As with the earlier equivalent Dual DN251E stylus (elliptical with flip-down stylus guard), the basic performance should be equivalent to the eternal evergreen AT95E and maybe the slightly posher VM95E.

There are lots of cheap turntables out there with 3600L fitted. If the tonearms safely allow a reduction to 2g downforce, the sound will be a little livelier without tracking issues (assuming the 91/3600L styli are the same as discussed above and elsewhere) and changing to an elliptical stylus as per the above, does clean the higher frequencies up noticeably, especially at side end.

Just thought I'd mention it here for anyone's future reference.

 

[undeakyetonde]

There are lots of cheap turntables out there with 3600L fitted. If the tonearms safely allow a reduction to 2g downforce, the sound will be a little livelier without tracking issues (assuming the 91/3600L styli are the same as discussed above and elsewhere) and changing to an elliptical stylus as per the above, does clean the higher frequencies up noticeably, especially at side end.

Looks like this 3600LE stylus needs 3-4g vtf so no need to reduce it to 2g

ATN3600LE

Compatible Turntables Audio-Technica turntables: AT-LP60X series, AT-LP60 series, AT-LP2D series, AT-PL300 series, AT-SB727, AT-SB2022, AT-LPGO-BT, AT-PL50.Other brands: Consult the turntable&rsqu ...

www.audio-technica.com

 

[DSJR]

Looks like this 3600LE stylus needs 3-4g vtf so no need to reduce it to 2g

ATN3600LE

Compatible Turntables Audio-Technica turntables: AT-LP60X series, AT-LP60 series, AT-LP2D series, AT-PL300 series, AT-SB727, AT-SB2022, AT-LPGO-BT, AT-PL50.Other brands: Consult the turntable&rsqu ...

www.audio-technica.com

Sonically there is!

The 2g AT91 has a clear (as much as a bonded conical tip can give) and neutral balance. The 3600l (and AT91/Rega Carbon) at anything over 2.5g in my opinion doesn't, the sound going thick and soggy up top as the suspension is loaded more and VTA of the cantilever/stylus altered. I'm assuming the two cartridges are the same except the stylus housing colour, so if peeps are using the 3600L, then try at 2g and see what happens. My Rega Carbon tracks cleanly at 2g with no issues (as well as a conical tip can)...

(I was once told (and I think it was confirmed with hard evidence later on) that 1/10g change in tracking force and the corresponding loading on the stylus' suspension, can be equivalent to 2mm or so change of pillar height when adjusting VTA.)

P.S. This stylus has a recommended tracking force of 3 - 4g too. Despite one review expressing extreme caution using an elliptical at this downforce (the Ortofon OM 'DJ' ellipticals are similar), I'd suggest the tip profile isn't that 'sharp' and shouldn't give concern if records are clean..

 

[DSJR]

Okay, I’m not a vinyl fan at all. But I have a few old records, and my son has started to discover physical media.

To cut a long story short, I’m buying a turntable, but one as cheap as I can get away with without it being a toy.

I think I’ve settled on this:

Audio-Technica LP60XUSB (Black)

Shop for Audio Technica LP60XUSB Black USB Turntable with Richer Sounds for expert advice and lowest prices guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

Okay, so it has a switchable internal phono pre amp. It will be going into a WiiM Ultra, which has two sets of RCA input, one phono, one line level.

Would I be better off using the turntables pre amp and the Ultra’s line level input, or the turntable’s standard output and WiiM’s phono in?

Please and thank you.

Hope that AT deck is suitable, as it's very cheap...

I'm interested in this (I have a turntable stash and cannot add to it) -

Pro-Ject Primary E (Black)

Shop for Project Primary E Black Turntable with Richer Sounds for a 6 Year Guarantee, expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

-as EM artist Madis uses a white one in his Youtube videos. I once thought the 'sound' was actually from the record, but not so sure now apart from surface noise added, as his last album has the stylus hitting the locked run-out groove with no 'click' as it does so. As with the AT deck you mention, which may have an upgradeable stylus if the tracking force can be altered to 2g, the supplied basic Ortofon OM cartridge body easily upgradeable to an OM5e or 10 stylus.

Both these decks MUST be carefully sited, as their lightweight and possibly resonant construction will encourage detail-sapping feedback otherwise (feedback in a vinyl system happens long before the final howl-round occurs.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Hope that AT deck is suitable, as it's very cheap...

I'm interested in this (I have a turntable stash and cannot add to it) -

Pro-Ject Primary E (Black)

Shop for Project Primary E Black Turntable with Richer Sounds for a 6 Year Guarantee, expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

-as EM artist Madis uses a white one in his Youtube videos. I once thought the 'sound' was actually from the record, but not so sure now apart from surface noise added, as his last album has the stylus hitting the locked run-out groove with no 'click' as it does so. As with the AT deck you mention, which may have an upgradeable stylus if the tracking force can be altered to 2g, the supplied basic Ortofon OM cartridge body easily upgradeable to an OM5e or 10 stylus.

Both these decks MUST be carefully sited, as their lightweight and possibly resonant construction will encourage detail-sapping feedback otherwise (feedback in a vinyl system happens long before the final howl-round occurs.

Cheers. I’m mainly using it for ripping vinyl, and monitor on headphones.