Dan Clark Stealth Review (State of the Art Headphone)

[John B]

If you like green, and that is your favorite color, would your buy a TV that tinted everything green - and then persuade people enjoying clear TV sets they have it all wrong?

 

[amirm]

There is definitely value in subjective opinions, especially once you become familiar with a particular reviewer's tastes.

This is a classic argument that unfortunately is wrong. As I explained in my video, subjective reviewers are notoriously unreliable in their assessment of sound. From the peer reviewed research cited in my video:

As you see, the rate worse than sales people at audio stores. They simply can't give consistent scores (to speakers in this case) because of lack of training and understanding of how to evaluate sound.

Once reliability is lost, then the opinion loses value.

Back to taste argument, that is flawed because most of us have similar tastes when tested blind:

Now make the test sighted and all of a sudden an Abyss Headphone may be "better" than X. Have me review something and give it high marks and the other reviewer may want on principal to say, "well, it isn't that good."

Bottom line, you have to put most of your faith in measurements, not someone's "taste." For what is left -- subjective observations -- they need to still be grounded. They can't be random assessments that have no ability to be proven or disproven. Headphone has or doesn't have "slam?" Who says? On what basis? If you next paycheck depended on that, can you prove it? Answer is no. Heck no.

If you are here, in this forum, this is what we advocate. Don't put your trust in opinions that are made to fill space and produce youtube minutes. Ask for proofs. Ask for science to back them. Don't just give in to lay arguments, as popular as they may be.

 

[ra990]

If you like green, and that is your favorite color, would your buy a TV that tinted everything green - and then persuade people enjoying clear TV sets they have it all wrong?

That's a pretty weak analogy, like really reaching... But, sure, as long as I make it clear that I strongly prefer green.

 

[Resolve]

What is NOT OK is for a reviewer with a straight face make assessments that have no foundation.

Okay this needs to stop. You seem to be doing everything in your power to discredit me and calling my impressions invalid, when I've provided both objective measurements, as well as subjective comparisons that you yourself haven't done. I've also supplied objective information that reveals things about the driver resonance frequency and driver damping, as well as on-head measurements that also haven't been provided here. Additionally, I've given a running hypothesis on why these types of headphones may be subjectively experienced this way by some, myself included. Your repeated attacks against me are baseless, myopic, and most importantly unscientific. Calling any of this unfounded is utter nonsense, and I'm tired of it. You may disagree with my opinion, you may dislike me, but that doesn't give you license to repeatedly discredit me, slander me, and accuse me of positions I do not hold - even going as far as to attribute words to me from articles I did not write. This is truly ridiculous at this point, and more importantly an uninteresting squabble that benefits nobody. It's time for this to end.

 

[amirm]

Also, there are certain aspects of the sound that can currently only be described subjectively, like slam, punch, detail, air, soundstage width - none of which can currently be measured specifically - but may turn out to be based very closely on frequency response and distortion measurements.

Before we get into measuring anything, you need to demonstrate that it is a thing in controlled listening tests. There is none for "slam," punch" or "air." There is for soundstage and that is extensively studied. By far the biggest determinant of that is in the content, not the reproduction device. I can pan a signal left and right and even the cheapest stereo speakers will present it that way. Second is frequency response as you state and that determines spatial content and not necessarily soundstage.

But again, I have not asked for measurement proofs. I have asked for reliability of subjective evaluation when someone says this headphone has punch and another doesn't. Have them prove it. If they can't in any way or shape other than "believe me because I heard it," then it means nothing. We have people say that about every useless thing in audio.

It is time that we curtail this kind of subjectivity at least in the context of an informed discussion in this forum. Andrew can say something like that in his world but here? We best not give it time of day.

 

[amirm]

I've also supplied objective information that reveals things about the driver resonance frequency and driver damping, as well as on-head measurements that also haven't been provided here.

Your measurements are not in dispute here. And their value is established. As I explained, I read and watch your reviews on that front.

Additionally, I've given a running hypothesis on why these types of headphones may be subjectively experienced this way by some, myself included.

Not interested in your hypothesis on this front. You have no controlled test, research or anything solid to back said hypothesis. Before you get into explaining things, you need to run a controlled listening tests with more of a sample than yourself. You said you haven't done that so there is nothing there.

 

[amirm]

You may disagree with my opinion, you may dislike me, but that doesn't give you license to behave like a petulant child repeatedly discrediting me, slandering me, and accusing me of positions I do not hold - even going as far as to attribute words to me from articles I did not write.

You need to calm down. My subjective remarks about speakers and headphones are challenged all the time even though mine have far more of a foundation than yours. And I run this site! The standard of proof in this forum is very high. You want to play here? You need to have your best game on and provide back up, not just say you are mad.

And none of this is about you as a person which I find very affable, this interaction notwithstanding.

To be clear, you have made outlandish negative remarks about a headphone that is world class as far as objective measurements. You need to provide incredible proof that despite all of that, some things are wrong with it. If you can't do that, then that is that. I am not going to give you a pass.

 

[Resolve]

Your measurements are not in dispute here. And their value is established. As I explained, I read and watch your reviews on that front.


Not interested in your hypothesis on this front. You have no controlled test, research or anything solid to back said hypothesis. Before you get into explaining things, you need to run a controlled listening tests with more of a sample than yourself. You said you haven't done that so there is nothing there.

I think you drastically misunderstand the function of a first impression... Anyway, I've had enough of this stuff as you can tell. So let's just stop.

 

[MayaTlab]

There is for soundstage and that is extensively studied. By far the biggest determinant of that is in the content, not the reproduction device. I can pan a signal left and right and even the cheapest stereo speakers will present it that way. Second is frequency response as you state and that determines spatial content and not necessarily soundstage.

Would this be a subject that you'd be interested in providing a more long-form presentation on the subject with links towards relevant research (for example a YouTube video) ?
I find this a little unsatisfying :

On spatial qualities, by far the determinant for that is lack of energy in the 1 to 5 kHz. In countless headphones with this issue, I am able to correct that with EQ and spatial qualities become substantially better. So the proof you are looking for is in the frequency response.

As far as I'm concerned other than object based formats + HRTF engine (perhaps with some degree of personalisation) + perhaps head tracking + the appropriate basal FR at the DRP I'm not certain that I ever got anything that I'd personally call "soundstage" with any pair of HPs. Playing Returnal on a PS5 was quite an eye-opening experience in that regard.

 

[john_at_home]

I think you drastically misunderstand the function of a first impression... Anyway, I've had enough of this stuff as you can tell. So let's just stop.

Seems reasonable to back up your claims with data. If you want to establish credibility in this forum, post a detailed review with data that backs up your impressions.

 

[Paolo]

Seems reasonable to back up your claims with data. If you want to establish credibility in this forum, post a detailed review with data that backs up your impressions.

Frankly, I hate first impressions because they’re part of the hype machine, but asking for proof on a subjective first taste is kind of absurd.

 

[Resolve]

whether it is the tiniest detail or grand slams of the bass notes, it makes my jaw drop in amazement!

Please provide proof with a controlled study of multiple people for this subjective impression - that this is indeed a truthful claim about the effects this headphone had on listeners. I would genuinely be interested in seeing the results.

You see the problem here... We're quibbling over slightly different subjective experiences even though our objective results agree.

 

[whazzup]

Please provide proof with a controlled study of multiple people for this subjective impression - that this is indeed a truthful claim about the effects this headphone had on listeners. I would genuinely be interested in seeing the results.

You see the problem here... We're quibbling over slightly different subjective experiences even though our objective results agree.

So if someone is looking to replicate your experience, which are the headphones that clearly trump the Stealth in micro / macro dynamics? And which music tracks, say on Spotify / Tidal, can best illustrate these traits? I'm sure in the coming days, more and more people will be able to do comparisons.

 

[Resolve]

So if someone is looking to replicate your experience, which are the headphones that clearly trump the Stealth in micro / macro dynamics? And which music tracks, say on Spotify / Tidal, can best illustrate these traits? I'm sure in the coming days, more and more people will be able to do comparisons.

This whole thing has been completely misrepresented on this forum for some reason. I don't think any particular headphone clearly beats the Stealth for stuff like detail. There are a few that perhaps do marginally better, but it's not massive. Moreover, the Stealth has a better FR than any headphone I've heard yet. I also think this is a world class headphone, just like Amir does. I simply don't think it has one particular quality that some people look for. It's not a quality that I personally care about all that much, and clearly it's not something everyone notices. But I notice it, and it would be wrong to omit that information.

In particular though, I have an original HE-6 on hand that's a good reference point for this quality.

 

[Resolve]

So I can get a better idea of how to interpret the subjective aspects of your reviews, please let us know if you believe that a power cord makes a difference in sound quality. Your answer will provide us with a basic understanding of what relevance to place on your subjective opinions.
Thanks for indulging me.

I don't believe stuff like that makes a difference. I don't see this stuff the way those reviewers do.

 

[Resolve]

While I see your point here, I am also genuinely interested in seeing reliable data about micro- and macrodynamics qualities in audio reproduction. Really, if there is such data, I am very interested to learn about it.
And if there isn't, I would find it quite impressive if you would at least try to conduct your own rigorous scientific investigation into it. Maybe @amirm would be willing to support you with those investigations?
But first and foremost: you have to clearly define what those terms mean. If you have no clear definition about what you are investigating. The investigation is quite useless. It cannot be reproduced by others, because no-one knows what they should be looking for. Even you don't actually really know it, before you have a well established definition.

That's... Literally what I'm trying to do, or at least aspiring to do. Seemingly that gets missed in all of this.

 

[Jave]

@Resolve , @amirm - is it possible to measure Stealth with broken seal?
I have glasses and have a problem with the C flow in terms of seal\bass (even without glasses though) and would really like to know whether switching to Stealth might change it.
Thanks!

 

[Jave]

Random first impressions:

• The Harman target, if implemented properly, is way less bassy than I previously expected. I would personally call bass elevated slightly, but very tastefully. Maybe the elevation is only the bump around 120 Hz, where the Stealth deviates from the target.
• 2-4 kHz is much higher than expected. I should have anticipated that, because TrueFi headphone EQ previously gave me some issues in that frequency range with other headphones. The question is whether my hearing is extra sensitive here or I am simply not used to correct levels in this range.
• Sound insulation is okay both ways, but people nearby will still hear faint music in an otherwise quiet room. Still beats hearing faint music in the next room, as with open headphones.
• Fit is comfortable, but weirdly loose. Seal seems to be not an issue at all, however.
• Thermal insulation seems comparable to the Ether 2 (maybe even better), which is open, but not exactly airy.
• Whether I like the sound of it highly depends on 2-4 kHz content right now.
• The box has been packed for shipping with great care. Love the attention to detail.
• It has the same characteristic smell like other DCA headphones.
• Non-zero macrodynamics.

Do you wear glasses while listening (said that seal was non-issue)?

 

[Paolo]

@Resolve , @amirm - is it possible to measure Stealth with broken seal?
I have glasses and have a problem with the C flow in terms of seal\bass (even without glasses though) and would really like to know whether switching to Stealth might change it.
Thanks!

I think you’re asking for the second graph here:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/dan-clark-audio-stealth-flagship-closed-back-headphones/14072/80

 

[Tadgh]

@Resolve , @amirm - is it possible to measure Stealth with broken seal?
I have glasses and have a problem with the C flow in terms of seal\bass (even without glasses though) and would really like to know whether switching to Stealth might change it.
Thanks!

Broken seal measurements and multi-position measurements should probably be a part of every review, for completeness's sake