Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

[Atratusnex]

I will count all the peas I have to if it means saving someone from losing a field

k gl hf...

 

[redshift]

How would this measure with the noise shaping digital filter completely switched off?

I seem to enjoy my RME ADI 2 FS the best in that mode.

I doubt some HF dithering of the actuators is a problem. For the cats and dogs perhaps, but humans…

 

[jannek]

sorry for asking, does anyone here have a picture of the balanced cable I should use for this DAC?
I wasn't able to imagine what it'd look like, or where can I buy it.

DIY with Neutrik connectors, Mogami cable and Viablue sleeving looks like this:

 

[jannek]

Thank you for the URL, but there's still something I don't quite understand yet. One end is XLR while the other end is 6.3mm, then how is it really balanced? Sorry for this, I'm only used with xlr-xlr connections.

Have a look at my post #301 ...

 

[Ralf Stocker]

How long can the USB cable actually be so that it still works? Does anyone have any experience?

 

[Blumlein 88]

How long can the USB cable actually be so that it still works? Does anyone have any experience?

Officially 5 meters. They do make active extenders for cheap that work up to 82 feet at least.
Like this one for 82 ft.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6149

These fiber optic ones go further, but cost more.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16377

 

[Grooved]

How long can the USB cable actually be so that it still works? Does anyone have any experience?

It depends on several things, main what is on the cable path... like other cables
I already achieved the same measurements with a 6ft provided cable only than with the same cable + a 15ft basic extension cable, but it was on a clean path

 

[kchap]

Is the filter FIR (linear phase) or IIR (minimum phase)? I assume there aren't selectable filters.

I'd love to get this but I have a preference for linear phase filters

With so many DAC manufacturers selecting minimum phase and/or a gentler slope as the default option I am experimenting with the idea of up-sampling.

I mainly listen to 44.1/16 FLAC files so I have used SoX to convert some to 192/24 FLAC files. Of course there is no signal above 22.05 kHz because SoX is applying the standard linear phase anti-aliasing filter LPF at around 21 kHz; what I want. The DAC will use an anti-aliasing filter at 90~91 kHz which should put phase and slope issues in the "don't care" range.

If I'm happy with the results I will convert all my files. BTW, I have ordered a D10 Balanced.

 

[redshift]

With so many DAC manufacturers selecting minimum phase and/or a gentler slope as the default option I am experimenting with the idea of up-sampling.

I mainly listen to 44.1/16 FLAC files so I have used SoX to convert some to 192/24 FLAC files. Of course there is no signal above 22.05 kHz because SoX is applying the standard linear phase anti-aliasing filter LPF at around 21 kHz; what I want. The DAC will use an anti-aliasing filter at 90~91 kHz which should put phase and slope issues in the "don't care" range.

If I'm happy with the results I will convert all my files. BTW, I have ordered a D10 Balanced.

Try switching off the AA filters and listen if that is all right for you.

I’m running my RME ADI 2 FS in unfettered mode. Subjectively, I like it the best with cans and PSI A17 M monitors.

 

[usern]

Thank you for the URL, but there's still something I don't quite understand yet. One end is XLR while the other end is 6.3mm, then how is it really balanced? Sorry for this, I'm only used with xlr-xlr connections.

Balanced headphone cables (if you can call it that) and balanced signal cables are different things. For signalling cables, RCA and TS is unbalanced with 2 conductors and XLR and TRS are balanced with 3 conductors. TRS to XLR cables are standard balanced cables used to connect audio interfaces and powered monitor speakers.

 

[Veri]

How would this measure with the noise shaping digital filter completely switched off?

Try switching off the AA filters and listen if that is all right for you.

You can't turn off the digital filter here, so no that can't work. Also, you really shouldn't. If you turn it off on your RME while listening to standard-res material, all you achieve is an early treble roll-off with significantly less clean intermodulation distortion. If you like the effect on treble, good but I wouldn't "recommend" this to others as the superior mode

 

[HDavidson]

Ten pages about cables TRS - XLR

 

[Veri]

Ten pages about cables TRS - XLR

The unfamiliarity is real

 

[redshift]

You can't turn off the digital filter here, so no that can't work. Also, you really shouldn't. If you turn it off on your RME while listening to standard-res material, all you achieve is an early treble roll-off with significantly less clean intermodulation distortion. If you like the effect on treble, good but I wouldn't "recommend" this to others as the superior mode

I’m not saying it is superior. I’m suggesting to try it out. I kinda like it.

However, I haven’t seen any measurements of a RME ADI 2 FS running in unfettered mode, if you have. Point it to me.

Then again, I’d like to have more customizable DSP’s with effects instead of obnoxious “flatness”, DR and SnR, etc. as only raison d'etre. Yes, even effects with some (tube) distortion.

I suppose I’m different in the sense in that I want my gear to be measuring and sounding frickin sublime in the clean path. And then slap on whatever effect I feel like it to sound for the day.

 

[Veri]

I’m not saying it is superior. I’m suggesting to try it out. I kinda like it.

However, I haven’t seen any measurements of a RME ADI 2 FS running in unfettered mode, if you have. Point it to me.

Then again, I’d like to have more customizable DSP’s with effects instead of obnoxious “flatness”, DR and SnR, etc. as only raison d'etre. Yes, even effects with some (tube) distortion.

I suppose I’m different in the sense in that I want my gear to be measuring and sounding frickin sublime in the clean path. And then slap on whatever effect I feel like it to sound for the day.

You can see the effect of filterless here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/post-850429
Treble rolls off early, already -1dB down at 10kHz, -4dB at 21kHz.

You can see the stair-case response and aliasing here https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/rme-adi-2-dac-fs-nos.php#gsc.tab=0
None of this is particularly pretty. I think the only thing that could sound pleasing is the effect on treble. But it is 100% wrong to think that this approach is a 'clean' path. It's not!

 

[redshift]

You can see the effect of filterless here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/post-850429
Treble rolls off early, already -1dB down at 10kHz, -4dB at 21kHz.

You can see the stair-case response and aliasing here https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/rme-adi-2-dac-fs-nos.php#gsc.tab=0
None of this is particularly pretty. I think the only thing that could sound pleasing is the effect on treble. But it is 100% wrong to think that this approach is a 'clean' path. It's not!

-4dB at 21k. No problems.

Nice step and impulse responses without wild oscillations. Even better.

A bit of aliasing is a price worth paying. It surely didn’t show up in the FS audible range, though.

That’s why I subjectively like it I suppose. Not much ringing and nastiness hidden in the “averaging effect” of a Fourier transform.

 

[Ralf Stocker]

View attachment 142641

What is that supposed to mean? I can put
XLR-2 ---> RCA+
XLR-1 ---> RCA-GND.

 

[jawbfl]

What is that supposed to mean? I can put
XLR-2 ---> RCA+
XLR-1 ---> RCA-GND.

The D10b is strictly for balanced usage because it outputs 4V, if you want to use RCA get the D10s it's mostly the same, you can't adapt from 4V differential to 2V with regular adapters.

 

[Atanasi]

What is that supposed to mean? I can put
XLR-2 ---> RCA+
XLR-1 ---> RCA-GND.

E1DA 9038S, for example, has a significant DC offset, so the zero point of the signal is not the same as the USB ground. This makes it unsafe to connect to unbalanced devices with adapters, it is intended for headphones, which don't care about a DC offset.

D10 Balanced's DC offset is smaller, according to the specs at most 70 mV, and you are responsible to ensure your system can tolerate that, so that for example your unbalanced input is DC isolated from the ground.

 

[Ralf Stocker]

The D10b is strictly for balanced usage because it outputs 4V, if you want to use RCA get the D10s it's mostly the same, you can't adapt from 4V differential to 2V with regular adapters.

Any good power amp can cope with 4V at RCA input. You have 2V between XLR-plus and XLR-ground, not 4V.