Steve Wozniak weighs in on right to repair

[Blumlein 88]

Yeah, I remember having a gun to my head last time I went shopping.

I've heard of men going on shopping trips with the wife and wishing to put a gun to their head, but that is something different.

Here is Arizona boonie camo.

 

[SIY]

That's a lot closer. Put a rubber rattlesnake on it and you'll blend right in.

 

[Kuppenbender]

I replaced a broken control dial on a Panasonic GX9 camera once, after getting a technical manual online and finding the part on AliExpress. At first I was pleased with my camera, and reassured that such a complex device was repairable. Then it occurred to me that if this part was so easily obtainable, it must have an alarmingly high failure rate. So I sold it.

 

[Tks]

Well, us dinosaurs who expect good behavior and repairability will die off soon enough, leaving only those who see the current state of affairs as 'normal'. Then the ants will inherit the earth (such as it is).

Nah, things can never get too bad, it either forces a natural correction (the worst kind we seem slowly to be edging toward a precipice of sorts in the form of ecological disaster), or by superficial correction (the sort where you have enough people pissed off, people start either getting dragged to jail after society starts to realize what a disaster they have on their hand, or if/when things get real bad - dragged to the guillotine a'la French Revolution style). But since death penalties for while collar crime is nonexistent, you'll mostly have regulators eventually closing down in on you, which is actually worse than having your CEO or executives sent on a bus to some prison.

There are also some proactive nations as found in the Nordic section of the world (also places like Singapore, New Zealand, France, and China itself believe it or not) that are somewhat clamping down on this sort of behavior slowly. Citizens in the US will eventually start looking inward wondering why they're becoming a shithole nation in so many sectors. They won't settle perpetually to be outpaced by countries considered third-world only in the recent past.

Or so I'd like to think such about our citizens. Though the amount of horseshit and stupidity that has been passed off already, and the amount people are actually putting up with, is quite astounding (granted this doesn't have much to do with strictly right to repair, but recent things like the calamity of the '08 financial crisis not really sending anyone prolific to prison at the very least, and stupid regulations that came that only annoy simple borrowers, and not so much the financial system itself that should've been reigned in).

There is one dark side to this whole thing, and that perhaps there may be an underlying subconscious, that if probed for an actual statement on this whole repair-ability ordeal, may answer eventually when pressed up against a wall; in the affirmative with something to the effect of saying: "Yes I actually do not care for the planet, I don't care for the paradigm of sustainable devices that last, I don't care of forcing private entities to do anything they don't want to do, so as long as I keep getting improvements every year for my devices".

If anyone here is a hard-capitalist believer, then the belief that demand is a good indicator of people's wants and needs is on full display currently. Sadly it seems those desires are misplaced when societal well-being is concerned if we're looking things from this lens. That is about the only thing I actually worry about (is if such underlying belief ends up actually being true, and this sort of world we're trending toward, is a world people aren't too bothered by heading in the direction of).

 

[q3cpma]

Now you are deflecting from your original comment that users of Windows/MacOS that care about repairability are hypocrites.

If you talk about the first post only, and in a literal fashion, then it doesn't mention anything about cell phones. If you want to stop trolling, then I explained further that the presence or absence of reasonable alternatives was the key; by reasonable, you should understand that sacrificing your principles for pure convenience isn't it.

 

[q3cpma]

Nah, things can never get too bad, it either forces a natural correction (the worst kind we seem slowly to be edging toward a precipice of sorts in the form of ecological disaster), or by superficial correction (the sort where you have enough people pissed off, people start either getting dragged to jail after society starts to realize what a disaster they have on their hand, or if/when things get real bad - dragged to the guillotine a'la French Revolution style). But since death penalties for while collar crime is nonexistent, you'll mostly have regulators eventually closing down in on you, which is actually worse than having your CEO or executives sent on a bus to some prison.

There are also some proactive nations as found in the Nordic section of the world (also places like Singapore, New Zealand, France, and China itself believe it or not) that are somewhat clamping down on this sort of behavior slowly. Citizens in the US will eventually start looking inward wondering why they're becoming a shithole nation in so many sectors. They won't settle perpetually to be outpaced by countries considered third-world only in the recent past.

Or so I'd like to think such about our citizens. Though the amount of horseshit and stupidity that has been passed off already, and the amount people are actually putting up with, is quite astounding (granted this doesn't have much to do with strictly right to repair, but recent things like the calamity of the '08 financial crisis not really sending anyone prolific to prison at the very least, and stupid regulations that came that only annoy simple borrowers, and not so much the financial system itself that should've been reigned in).

There is one dark side to this whole thing, and that perhaps there may be an underlying subconscious, that if probed for an actual statement on this whole repair-ability ordeal, may answer eventually when pressed up against a wall; in the affirmative with something to the effect of saying: "Yes I actually do not care for the planet, I don't care for the paradigm of sustainable devices that last, I don't care of forcing private entities to do anything they don't want to do, so as long as I keep getting improvements every year for my devices".

If anyone here is a hard-capitalist believer, then the belief that demand is a good indicator of people's wants and needs is on full display currently. Sadly it seems those desires are misplaced when societal well-being is concerned if we're looking things from this lens. That is about the only thing I actually worry about (is if such underlying belief ends up actually being true, and this sort of world we're trending toward, is a world people aren't too bothered by heading in the direction of).

Trying to convince the "free market will balance itself, eventually!" people is a bit of a waste of time, isn't it? The problem is that some US intellectuals try to peddle their "idea" that a pinkotopia like France or some nordic countries where the middle class is considered a bottomless purse by the state while it also suffers from this modern capitalism is better.

BTW, what came after the 1789 revolution was probably worse, the Jacobins had external financial backers and it won't happen until the panem et circenses supply dries up (never ever, basically).

 

[bluefuzz]

with a heavy investment in lenses, switching brands is easier said than done

Go mirrorless. A €10 adaptor and I can use pretty much any old glass from any manufacturer on my little Sony mirrorless ...

 

[Tks]

Trying to convince the "free market will balance itself, eventually!" people is a bit of a waste of time, isn't it? The problem is that some US intellectuals try to peddle their "idea" that a pinkotopia like France or some nordic countries where the middle class is considered a bottomless purse by the state while it also suffers from this modern capitalism is better.

BTW, what came after the 1789 revolution was probably worse, the Jacobins had external financial backers and it won't happen until the panem et circenses supply dries up (never ever, basically).

I don't care to convince them of their error in their belief that the market will self regulate. I'm content with them understanding if the market truly is as they describe, then it's filled with people contradictory to how they actually behave in virtually every other facet of life (meaning well intentioned, and socially concerned people). But if libertarians are correct and market demand is a proper metric of people's actual well-informed desires, then we're nothing but a society of self deluding savages for the most part. And "self balancing" mechanisms is actually a trivial topic when the topic of an insane population comes up for discussion.

 

[q3cpma]

then we're nothing but a society of self deluding savages for the most part. And "self balancing" mechanisms is actually a trivial topic when the topic of an insane population comes up for discussion.

Was there ever any doubt that the great unwashed is guided by pleasure and pain only? Only in the equality infected brain could this harsh sounding truth be denied.
Being in the decadence part of the civilizational cycle just makes it more obvious.

 

[Digital_Thor]

I just hope the people complaining about repairability aren't hypocritically running Windows/MacOS.

Linux here - also on all other computers I can "convert", By upgrading the older computer with an SSD and Linux mint. Mostly they give me a cup of coffee and I show them a few tricks - and then they are as happy as ever with Linux as they would ever have thought possible.
After I build an old computer from various parts lying around, to my mother. She only asked about weird emails and the internet. Because on Linux it just seems to work with no bothersome pop-ups or the like. A bit of team-viewer sessions can be of help now and then - but that's it.
Almost my entire HIFI-setup, TV, computer, server and network, is DIY and used parts too.

 

[Trell]

If you talk about the first post only, and in a literal fashion, then it doesn't mention anything about cell phones. If you want to stop trolling, then I explained further that the presence or absence of reasonable alternatives was the key; by reasonable, you should understand that sacrificing your principles for pure convenience isn't it.

 

[Trell]

I don't care to convince them of their error in their belief that the market will self regulate. I'm content with them understanding if the market truly is as they describe, then it's filled with people contradictory to how they actually behave in virtually every other facet of life (meaning well intentioned, and socially concerned people). But if libertarians are correct and market demand is a proper metric of people's actual well-informed desires, then we're nothing but a society of self deluding savages for the most part. And "self balancing" mechanisms is actually a trivial topic when the topic of an insane population comes up for discussion.

Libertarians are wrong in this and acts more like a cult concerning "free market". And in economics there is the whole theory built around a single "rational actor", and since we're already somewhat off-topic there is this great quite from the late economist Robert Solow that had a nack for quatable comments (https://economicsociology.org/2018/07/14/robert-solows-sarcastic-economics/)

>>>
“Suppose someone sits down where you are sitting right now and announces to me that he is Napoleon Bonaparte. The last thing I want to do with him is to get involved in a technical discussion of cavalry tactics at the battle of Austerlitz. If I do that, I’m getting tacitly drawn into the game that he is Napoleon. Now, Bob Lucas and Tom Sargent like nothing better than to get drawn into technical discussions, because then you have tacitly gone along with their fundamental assumptions; your attention is attracted away from the basic weakness of the whole story. Since I find that fundamental framework ludicrous, I respond by treating it as ludicrous — that is, by laughing at it — so a’s not to fall into the trap of taking it seriously and passing on to matters of technique” (Arjo Klamer’s Conversations with Economists, 1983, p. 146)
<<<

 

[raif71]

I'm singing the Beastie Boys' (You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Repair)

 

[markanini]

Libertarians are wrong in this and acts more like a cult concerning "free market". And in economics there is the whole theory built around a single "rational actor", and since we're already somewhat off-topic there is this great quite from the late economist Robert Solow that had a nack for quatable comments (https://economicsociology.org/2018/07/14/robert-solows-sarcastic-economics/)

How is it that Libertarianism is the redheaded stepchild of politics that somehow is okay to shit on in forums where political discussion is discouraged? I smell envy. But don't take it from me, look at a country that works as close to a Libertarian state as possible, Switzerland, and tell me if things are better of worse than your own country across multiple freedom indices.

 

[DVDdoug]

I look at it from another POV: we have become a throw away society. People personally don't like dealing with repairs, especially undertaking them by themselves, and would just as soon go buy a new and more recent version of the product.

Different from the regulatory issue...

I mentioned this in another context - The economics are such that things are built on an assembly line with very little labor, and often very-cheap low-skill, 3rd-world labor. The materials are purchased, shipped, and stocked in bulk.

A repair takes often takes more labor than the total labor to build the thing, and it's expensive skilled labor. If parts are needed, they have to be purchased and shipped in small quantities. Custom parts or older parts may be out-of-production.

 

[SIY]

Can we keep politics out of this, please?

 

[Wes]

Yeah, I remember having a gun to my head last time I went shopping.

as an example how many high speed internet options are available to you??

here, it is ONE

 

[Wes]

Different from the regulatory issue...

I mentioned this in another context - The economics are such that things are built on an assembly line with very little labor, and often very-cheap low-skill, 3rd-world labor. The materials are purchased, shipped, and stocked in bulk.

A repair takes often takes more labor than the total labor to build the thing, and it's expensive skilled labor. If parts are needed, they have to be purchased and shipped in small quantities. Custom parts or older parts may be out-of-production.

we need more robots

 

[SIY]

as an example how many high speed internet options are available to you??

here, it is ONE

At least two. There should be more, but our local government restricted the competition.

 

[Wes]

Duopoly ...