Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

[albarot]

Hi everyone, i read a bunch of page of this 140 pages long post. But i have a few question.
What setting should i put in windows audio panel?
I can clearly hear a difference in quality if i have windows oversampling set to for example 24/192 and NOS on. Compare to 16/44.1 and Nos on.
But, it is more subtle when using windows 24/192 Nos off and 16/44.1 Nos off.

I read the archimago page that Veri posted. I understand the benefit of oversampling, what i don t understand is should i use the windows oversampling setting and have NOS on, or should i set windows to default 16/44.1 with Nos off, or should i put windows in the highest setting and still have Nos off.

Also is there anything to change in the gustard software, and should i upgrade it to 5.0.

Sorry for all the stupid question, but i am not so happy with the sound i am getting. It s weird but my pairing with the A90 sound worst than my older modi 2 dac. I lost sound stage and overal natural sounding sound and vocal. But i gain in precision speed clarity ect. So i don t know, i just want to make sure i didn t fucked up some settings.

 

[wisechoice]

Well, my quest to fix the DSD playback on this device has been quite the epic so far.

First, it looked as though nothing was happening with the USB auto programmer. I was told that it had shipped from China, FedEx reported a label was created, but nothing else for two weeks. I was starting to feel shady about the whole thing, especially given that it would have been easier for them to just exchange it for one that works properly (although more expensive coming all that way). And the clock was ticking on the return window.

By chance, I needed to chat with Amazon about another lost package, and I noticed that -- surprise -- the window had already closed, early on the X16! So I asked what was going on. And get this: the rep immediately says that she will issue a full refund, but that I can keep or donate or dispose of it. Apparently it's too dangerous to return... (!)

I wondered if that was a mistake, because I ordered AAA batteries for the remote at the same time as the Gustard, and they are also listed as too dangerous to return. (You can try it out sometime with something expensive, and let me know ...) But no matter... A full refund, you say? Well the thing is pretty usable, but not for the purpose I wanted it. I wasn't going to say no...

So I do some more reading, including Amar's very helpful measurements, and decide to order the new Topping EX5 as a replacement for DSD playback, and with a nice headphone amp to boot. And then, hey why not, a Topping E30 and RME Digiface to explore multichannel DSD with my mixed collection of powered speakers, just in case I ever get the Gustard working properly! (not actually sure about the E30 though, since apparently no DoP over optical, but anyway...)

Then, yesterday, I get an email from the seller saying that they're sorry I decided to return the device, but.... would I mind forwarding the auto programmer to the next customer? (It's a relay, apparently! Lol) I wrote back saying, actually, I still have it, but I've used the money to buy another DAC that can play DSD properly. But also, the repair kit seems to be lost somewhere in transit.

Out of the blue, a neighbour comes by today with a package, wrongly delivered to her, that she opened without reading. Finding a bunch of wires that looked ready to be plugged into somebody's skull, she checked the box and noticed it was the wrong address. FedEx still shows a label created, waiting to ship. Don't ask me how it got here at all with no tracking... but it did.

So... great... I'm excited to begin. I begin disassembling the X16. I'm noticing just how well-built it seems. I'm glad that I have both male and female hex drivers to get it apart. The tolerances on everything are pretty tight, feels like my pro film gear. I notice the pair of grounding wires not mentioned in the documentation, attached to a corner screw (I believe). Have to reconnect that somehow while reassembling, and hope that I get it right. I'm noticing that the photo they provide doesn't show the optical port or the screw that holds it into place, and I accidentally unscrew it with the others on the backplate.

Finally, I've got it all apart... I'm balancing all the wires between the front panel and back panel, both of which are hanging a bit precariously by ribbon and power cables and the bluetooth antenna… And then I plug in the USB programmer, and...

It isn't recognized by my Windows 10 machine (a MacBook Pro running boot camp), except as "USB serial," and there seem to be no drivers for it.



So... to be continued. lmao

 

[wisechoice]

I put the file on this link.

https://mega.nz/file/QbRyDTbQ#ZNqUJLX7EgnECkV6t60FsyIxbfgREGz3Zy2cWUtqb7g

Is there any way this could help me?

 

[misureaudio]

Hi everyone, i read a bunch of page of this 140 pages long post. But i have a few question.
What setting should i put in windows audio panel?
I can clearly hear a difference in quality if i have windows oversampling set to for example 24/192 and NOS on. Compare to 16/44.1 and Nos on.
But, it is more subtle when using windows 24/192 Nos off and 16/44.1 Nos off.

I read the archimago page that Veri posted. I understand the benefit of oversampling, what i don t understand is should i use the windows oversampling setting and have NOS on, or should i set windows to default 16/44.1 with Nos off, or should i put windows in the highest setting and still have Nos off.

Also is there anything to change in the gustard software, and should i upgrade it to 5.0.

Sorry for all the stupid question, but i am not so happy with the sound i am getting. It s weird but my pairing with the A90 sound worst than my older modi 2 dac. I lost sound stage and overal natural sounding sound and vocal. But i gain in precision speed clarity ect. So i don t know, i just want to make sure i didn t fucked up some settings.

I can just report on my experience with the X16. I connected it to three different laptops spanning from a 2007 Sony FZ38M to a Toshiba Satellite L755 and, finally a 2018 MSI Raider GT65. I was able to use just the v.4.86 driver on the Sony and the Toshiba. Driver v.5.0.0 worked fine on the MSI.

Following a rule which is explicitly told by other manufacturers too, I leaved OS on all the time while listening to music, having bit perfect output on Audirvana and Foobar2k unmodified and having set the volume in the driver to 0dB. In these conditions the X16 worked very well, (except for the DSD known problem in my unit).

I tried NOS mode too but I couldn't find any advantage. In particular I decided to leave unmodified the stream at the player/computer level. I tried briefly instead to use PCM to DSD conversion at the player level, which worked ok except for high CPU load on the Sony. Unfortunately the DSD noise during the silent and very low level passages wouldn't allow to fully assess the attainable sound quality.

 

[Veri]

I tried NOS mode too but I couldn't find any advantage. In particular I decided to leave unmodified the stream at the player/computer level. I tried briefly instead to use PCM to DSD conversion at the player level, which worked ok except for high CPU load on the Sony. Unfortunately the DSD noise during the silent and very low level passages wouldn't allow to fully assess the attainable sound quality.

Seconding this. Upsampling and using NOS is often recommended on enthusiast forums, but there is no real reason this will improve things. You can experiment with it but it is unlikely it will change the sound/make audible differences..

I believe it is just there for those interested in it.

 

[k525]

Well, my quest to fix the DSD playback on this device has been quite the epic so far.

First, it looked as though nothing was happening with the USB auto programmer. I was told that it had shipped from China, FedEx reported a label was created, but nothing else for two weeks. I was starting to feel shady about the whole thing, especially given that it would have been easier for them to just exchange it for one that works properly (although more expensive coming all that way). And the clock was ticking on the return window.

By chance, I needed to chat with Amazon about another lost package, and I noticed that -- surprise -- the window had already closed, early on the X16! So I asked what was going on. And get this: the rep immediately says that she will issue a full refund, but that I can keep or donate or dispose of it. Apparently it's too dangerous to return... (!)

I wondered if that was a mistake, because I ordered AAA batteries for the remote at the same time as the Gustard, and they are also listed as too dangerous to return. (You can try it out sometime with something expensive, and let me know ...) But no matter... A full refund, you say? Well the thing is pretty usable, but not for the purpose I wanted it. I wasn't going to say no...

So I do some more reading, including Amar's very helpful measurements, and decide to order the new Topping EX5 as a replacement for DSD playback, and with a nice headphone amp to boot. And then, hey why not, a Topping E30 and RME Digiface to explore multichannel DSD with my mixed collection of powered speakers, just in case I ever get the Gustard working properly! (not actually sure about the E30 though, since apparently no DoP over optical, but anyway...)

Then, yesterday, I get an email from the seller saying that they're sorry I decided to return the device, but.... would I mind forwarding the auto programmer to the next customer? (It's a relay, apparently! Lol) I wrote back saying, actually, I still have it, but I've used the money to buy another DAC that can play DSD properly. But also, the repair kit seems to be lost somewhere in transit.

Out of the blue, a neighbour comes by today with a package, wrongly delivered to her, that she opened without reading. Finding a bunch of wires that looked ready to be plugged into somebody's skull, she checked the box and noticed it was the wrong address. FedEx still shows a label created, waiting to ship. Don't ask me how it got here at all with no tracking... but it did.

So... great... I'm excited to begin. I begin disassembling the X16. I'm noticing just how well-built it seems. I'm glad that I have both male and female hex drivers to get it apart. The tolerances on everything are pretty tight, feels like my pro film gear. I notice the pair of grounding wires not mentioned in the documentation, attached to a corner screw (I believe). Have to reconnect that somehow while reassembling, and hope that I get it right. I'm noticing that the photo they provide doesn't show the optical port or the screw that holds it into place, and I accidentally unscrew it with the others on the backplate.

Finally, I've got it all apart... I'm balancing all the wires between the front panel and back panel, both of which are hanging a bit precariously by ribbon and power cables and the bluetooth antenna… And then I plug in the USB programmer, and...

It isn't recognized by my Windows 10 machine (a MacBook Pro running boot camp), except as "USB serial," and there seem to be no drivers for it.



So... to be continued. lmao

Hi I am waiting for the programmer too, about your problem, did you tried to install the programmer driver?

regarding the programmer I read somewhere that a user was able to have it working after install all the optional windows 10 updates

let me know, my be I will be able to test my programmer Sunday

regards

 

[k525]

Is there any way this could help me?

Hi did you try to go to windows device manager to see if the system assigned a serial port number to your programmer?

 

[gustard]

Well, my quest to fix the DSD playback on this device has been quite the epic so far.

First, it looked as though nothing was happening with the USB auto programmer. I was told that it had shipped from China, FedEx reported a label was created, but nothing else for two weeks. I was starting to feel shady about the whole thing, especially given that it would have been easier for them to just exchange it for one that works properly (although more expensive coming all that way). And the clock was ticking on the return window.

By chance, I needed to chat with Amazon about another lost package, and I noticed that -- surprise -- the window had already closed, early on the X16! So I asked what was going on. And get this: the rep immediately says that she will issue a full refund, but that I can keep or donate or dispose of it. Apparently it's too dangerous to return... (!)

I wondered if that was a mistake, because I ordered AAA batteries for the remote at the same time as the Gustard, and they are also listed as too dangerous to return. (You can try it out sometime with something expensive, and let me know ...) But no matter... A full refund, you say? Well the thing is pretty usable, but not for the purpose I wanted it. I wasn't going to say no...

So I do some more reading, including Amar's very helpful measurements, and decide to order the new Topping EX5 as a replacement for DSD playback, and with a nice headphone amp to boot. And then, hey why not, a Topping E30 and RME Digiface to explore multichannel DSD with my mixed collection of powered speakers, just in case I ever get the Gustard working properly! (not actually sure about the E30 though, since apparently no DoP over optical, but anyway...)

Then, yesterday, I get an email from the seller saying that they're sorry I decided to return the device, but.... would I mind forwarding the auto programmer to the next customer? (It's a relay, apparently! Lol) I wrote back saying, actually, I still have it, but I've used the money to buy another DAC that can play DSD properly. But also, the repair kit seems to be lost somewhere in transit.

Out of the blue, a neighbour comes by today with a package, wrongly delivered to her, that she opened without reading. Finding a bunch of wires that looked ready to be plugged into somebody's skull, she checked the box and noticed it was the wrong address. FedEx still shows a label created, waiting to ship. Don't ask me how it got here at all with no tracking... but it did.

So... great... I'm excited to begin. I begin disassembling the X16. I'm noticing just how well-built it seems. I'm glad that I have both male and female hex drivers to get it apart. The tolerances on everything are pretty tight, feels like my pro film gear. I notice the pair of grounding wires not mentioned in the documentation, attached to a corner screw (I believe). Have to reconnect that somehow while reassembling, and hope that I get it right. I'm noticing that the photo they provide doesn't show the optical port or the screw that holds it into place, and I accidentally unscrew it with the others on the backplate.

Finally, I've got it all apart... I'm balancing all the wires between the front panel and back panel, both of which are hanging a bit precariously by ribbon and power cables and the bluetooth antenna… And then I plug in the USB programmer, and...

It isn't recognized by my Windows 10 machine (a MacBook Pro running boot camp), except as "USB serial," and there seem to be no drivers for it.



So... to be continued. lmao

I don't know if I can help you. The driver of the USB programmer is in the compressed package, and the COM device can be found after installation

 

[k525]

I don't know if I can help you. The driver of the USB programmer is in the compressed package, and the COM device can be found after installation

View attachment 139826



View attachment 139827

Hi Gustard

I realized just now that in seem you are using a ch340 based programmer, I just ordered a CP2102 based programmer, do you think it will work?

regards

 

[gustard]

Hi Gustard

I realized just now that in seem you are using a ch340 based programmer, I just ordered a CP2102 based programmer, do you think it will work?

regards

It should also work. Make sure you have the correct driver for CP2102 and start from the second step in attached tutorial.

 

[k525]

It should also work. Make sure you have the correct driver for CP2102 and start from the second step in attached tutorial.

Great I will let you know!!
Thank you

 

[caocaolatre199x]

Great I will let you know!!
Thank you

Can you take a full high resolution picture of the x16's board? If possible both transformer and mcu circuit? Thank you.

 

[k525]

Can you take a full high resolution picture of the x16's board? If possible both transformer and mcu circuit? Thank you.

I will try as soon as I open it

 

[Gradius]

Universal drivers for Windows:
https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/software/CP210x_Universal_Windows_Driver.zip

FYI, the last Thesycon's driver (v5.12 atm) is:
https://www.thesycon.de/usbaudio/TUSBAudio_history.txt

 

[k525]

Universal drivers for Windows:
https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/software/CP210x_Universal_Windows_Driver.zip

Thank you very much!
Just downloaded!
I cannot try before Sunday but I will let you know for sure
Regards

 

[albarot]

Still trying to understand how to setup windows i found a setup guide for a another dac the naim dac-V1 in there guide they talk about the sound setting to set on windows. Here is what they say:

"On the “Advanced” tab, choose from the dropdown list the audio format that you wish Windows to use as its output to the DAC-V1 from its internal mixer. It is not advised to pick a very high sample rate and bit depth here as the Windows mixer output is not bit perfect - we would suggest 16 or 24 bit at 44,100Hz as being a sensible value."

So my question is this the same for gustard should i stay 24/44,1 also?

 

[wisechoice]

I'm very happy to report that the update process is finally complete, and that DSD now plays back without any issue. The crackling sound at quiet or near-silent passages is gone. Hooray!

 

[wisechoice]

Still trying to understand how to setup windows i found a setup guide for a another dac the naim dac-V1 in there guide they talk about the sound setting to set on windows. Here is what they say:

"On the “Advanced” tab, choose from the dropdown list the audio format that you wish Windows to use as its output to the DAC-V1 from its internal mixer. It is not advised to pick a very high sample rate and bit depth here as the Windows mixer output is not bit perfect - we would suggest 16 or 24 bit at 44,100Hz as being a sensible value."

So my question is this the same for gustard should i stay 24/44,1 also?

I think the best advice is probably to set Windows to whatever sample rate your source material is encoded for, and leave NOS off on the DAC if it's under 176.4kHz (advice that Gustard gave earlier in this thread). Most music is at 16/44.1 unless you have specifically high res source material (e.g. hi res music streaming, downloads or SACD rips).

You can turn NOS on if you're using a software program like HQPlayer to up-res your source material before it's sent to the DAC.

 

[wisechoice]

I think the best advice is probably to set Windows to whatever sample rate your source material is encoded for, and leave NOS off on the DAC if it's under 176.4kHz (advice that Gustard gave earlier in this thread). Most music is at 16/44.1 unless you're using specifically high res source material (e.g. hi res streaming, download or SACD rips).

You can turn NOS on if you're using a software program like HQPlayer to up-res your source material before it's sent to the DAC.

I don't know if I can help you. The driver of the USB programmer is in the compressed package, and the COM device can be found after installation

View attachment 139826



View attachment 139827

Thanks. I wasn’t provided with any files by the seller, just the instructions and the USB programmer. The package uploaded by one of the users here allowed me to install the drivers and update the device.

 

[Veri]

Still trying to understand how to setup windows i found a setup guide for a another dac the naim dac-V1 in there guide they talk about the sound setting to set on windows. Here is what they say:

"On the “Advanced” tab, choose from the dropdown list the audio format that you wish Windows to use as its output to the DAC-V1 from its internal mixer. It is not advised to pick a very high sample rate and bit depth here as the Windows mixer output is not bit perfect - we would suggest 16 or 24 bit at 44,100Hz as being a sensible value."

So my question is this the same for gustard should i stay 24/44,1 also?

This is sensible advice, yes.