I did think the M60x and M70x were rather thin and treble-inclinedYup. Agreed. OK, let's say the AT signature sound (certainly for this range) is all about the treble. Not a right lot going on below that. Not the case for their studio line (m50 etc) so they clearly do it intentionally here.
At the same time Philips Fidelio X2 shows a better bass performance for an open back.Because physics. You can't have deep bass if you let all pressure leak out.
Even "open" planars don't get deep bass unless the seal they driver to ear "chamber" fairly well, but then the sound is usually less open as well so it's a trade-off.
I have a great old timer friend of mine in the Industry that have been involved in many ways in audio trade shows, he was jokingly telling me how all of the rooms when he was in Japan were systematically bass light, like damn, I haven't heard any subs trough all weekend. Audio-Technica being THE Japanese big gun in headphones (with Sony of course but Sony's playing a different ball game), wondering if this "house sound" could have to do with the audiophile culture, some different taste in the audiophile community. Never been there so I won't pretend I know, just an anecdote.
Harman has tested regional preference but has not found much evidence of it:I have a great old timer friend of mine in the Industry that have been involved in many ways in audio trade shows, he was jokingly telling me how all of the rooms when he was in Japan were systematically bass light, like damn, I haven't heard any subs trough all weekend. Audio-Technica being THE Japanese big gun in headphones (with Sony of course but Sony's playing a different ball game), wondering if this "house sound" could have to do with the audiophile culture, some different taste in the audiophile community. Never been there so I won't pretend I know, just an anecdote.
I've noticed the same and think you're right. Sony had a major influence in the headphone industry more than a decade ago since the introduction of their walkmans and prominent models like the R10, Qualia and SA5000 headphones, most of which are bass lightI have a great old timer friend of mine in the Industry that have been involved in many ways in audio trade shows, he was jokingly telling me how all of the rooms when he was in Japan were systematically bass light, like damn, I haven't heard any subs trough all weekend. Audio-Technica being THE Japanese big gun in headphones (with Sony of course but Sony's playing a different ball game), wondering if this "house sound" could have to do with the audiophile culture, some different taste in the audiophile community. Never been there so I won't pretend I know, just an anecdote.
On a sequence of quite a bunch of expensive HP, the output data is kind or repeating itself and shows large anomalies at Frequency response.
At the same time Philips Fidelio X2 shows a better bass performance for an open back.
This suggests that manufacturers playing into consumer expectations plays a role too.
Interesting. Looks like a closed front volume, like the Audeze.It's probably because its front volume isn't that open : https://blog.shanock.com/fix-loose-wobbly-earcup-on-philips-fidelio-x2-x2hr/
Harman has tested regional preference but has not found much evidence of it:
View attachment 134845
But it is entirely possible that the AT designers think there is such a preference. I remember visiting Yamaha and they told me how they change tonality of their products for home market, Europe and US.
Interesting. Looks like a closed front volume, like the Audeze.
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audio Technica flagship headphone, the ATH-ADX5000. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $1,999.
After testing a lot of heavy headphones, the ATH-ADX5000 feels like it is light as feather:
View attachment 134635
The lightness is great as far as wear comfort but does not impart feeling of luxury. The unit only weighs 275 grams despite sporting large cups:
View attachment 134620
The inside cup dimensions are 60x60x20 mm (height x width x depth).
The owner supplied them with an aftermarket cable that was light and nice to use with it. The stock cable is super stiff from what I have seen online.
Note: The measurements you are about to see are made using a standardized Gras 45C. Headphone measurements by definition are approximate and variable so don't be surprised if other measurements even if performed with the same fixtures as mine differ in end results. Protocols vary such as headband pressure and averaging (which I don't do). As you will see, I have confirmed the approximate accuracy of the measurements using Equalization and listening tests. Ultimately headphone measurements are less exact than speakers mostly in bass and above a few kilohertz so keep that in mind as you read these tests. If you think you have an exact idea of a headphone performance, you are likely wrong!
Fitting the ATH-ADX5000 to the fixture was extremely easy. With the large cups and excellent seal, the first try worked and I ran with it.
Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 Measurements
As usual we start with our frequency response:
View attachment 134623
As you see the fit to our target is quite poor. It seems to have exaggerated upper bass combined with the same in treble region. And some recess in the middle:
View attachment 134624
For a premier headphone I expect lots of attention to keep distortion low. Apparently Audio Technica does not believe in that:
View attachment 134625
View attachment 134632
Notice how the high distortion around 2.2 kHz is so bad that it is impacting the frequency response. There is clear design flaw in this driver that was not caught and fixed.
Group delay shows a nice smooth low frequency drop off but then gets messy like many headphones:
View attachment 134633
Sensitivity is lower than average:
View attachment 134634
The supplied cable was terminated in 4.4 mm balanced and despite having 100 different adapters, I did not have one to match it to my impedance measurement fixture. Company reports the impedance at 420 ohm. Combined with above sensitive number, this will be a difficult headphone to drive and likely out of question with native output of a portable device.
Audio Technica ATH-ADx5000 Listening Tests and Equalization
The exaggerated high frequencies are not so bad at first listen due to upper boost in bass. Still, the sound was uninterested and so the usual EQ tools came out. Creating a filter by eye is challenging due to the variations of the response so this is approximate:
View attachment 134629
I tried to compensate for the upper frequency bass by pulling that down but did not like the lack of bass. Even with my bass boost, the headphone doesn't reproduce a lot of bass with impact. Maybe the fit was worse on my head but I felt the pad and seemed to seal.
Spatial effects combined with above EQ created a good listening situation. I listened to it that way and then turned off the EQ. Now you could hear the exaggerated highs and collapsed openness due to depression in frequency response around 2 kHz.
Conclusions
The focus on the design of the ATH-ADX5000 seems to have been weight reduction. On that, they have succeeded. Despite large cups that bring good spatial qualities, the headphone is very light and so comfortable for long term use. Alas, the rest of the design is a failure with large deviation from target response -- almost going after "showroom sound" of accentuated bass and treble. We could partially forgive this if distortion was low but it is not. Out sub-bas boost likely increased distortion more. Overall, this is a failure to impress. The only reason it doesn't get the worst scores is because it has good spatial qualities and out of the box, it seems to sound OK.
I can NOT recommend the Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000. They need to do a lot better.
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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.
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Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 APO EQ Flat 96000Hz
June102021-162346
Preamp: -4.6 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 24.1 Hz Gain 4.78 dB Q 0.79
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 185 Hz Gain -5.11 dB Q 0.68
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 497.5 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 2
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1026 Hz Gain -3.42 dB Q 2.08
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2337 Hz Gain 4.46 dB Q 2.12
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3914 Hz Gain -3.47 dB Q 2.75
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5300 Hz Gain -5.32 dB Q 2.3
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 13567 Hz Gain -8.78 dB Q 3.11
I looked again, you are right. So it's more like the Beyerdynamic DT880 and DT990's holes in plate that holds the driver. Makes the bass performance more impressive if anything, even though it's the likely cause of the drop toward the bottom octave.You can see at least a few vents / ports, unlike Audeze's unless I'm mistaken.
Looks good, but what's the Amirm preferred balance? I wasn't aware that Amir had communicated his own preference curve, in fact my understanding is that he is trying to EQ to the 2018 Headphone Harman Curve in his headphone reviews.Here are some thoughts about the EQ.
Notes about the EQ design:
Good L/R match.
- The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
- The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
- A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
- The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve with a fixed complexity.
This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be more neutral.- The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF).
- The range above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
- I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
- With some HP/amp combo the boosts and preamp gain need to be carefully considered to avoid issues
I have generated one EQ, the APO config files are attached.
Score no EQ: 75.0 (surprisingly high)
Score Armirm: 61.4
Score with EQ: 88.4
Code:Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 APO EQ Flat 96000Hz June102021-162346 Preamp: -4.6 dB Filter 1: ON PK Fc 24.1 Hz Gain 4.78 dB Q 0.79 Filter 2: ON PK Fc 185 Hz Gain -5.11 dB Q 0.68 Filter 3: ON PK Fc 497.5 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 2 Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1026 Hz Gain -3.42 dB Q 2.08 Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2337 Hz Gain 4.46 dB Q 2.12 Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3914 Hz Gain -3.47 dB Q 2.75 Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5300 Hz Gain -5.32 dB Q 2.3 Filter 8: ON PK Fc 13567 Hz Gain -8.78 dB Q 3.11
View attachment 134867
With Amirm preferred balance:
Score no EQ: 72.0
Score Armirm: 74.3
Score with EQ: 84.9
View attachment 134866
Looks good, but what's the Amirm preferred balance? I wasn't aware that Amir had communicated his own preference curve, in fact my understanding is that he is trying to EQ to the 2018 Headphone Harman Curve in his headphone reviews.
Ah, ok, so you took an average of his EQ results in terms of determining the general tilt he puts on his EQ's? How did you work it out? If there is a fairly consistent pattern to the tonal balance of his EQ's then I suppose that's worth knowing if people are gonna be using his EQ filters, as people will then know for themselves that they're using something slightly different to Harman.I might be wrong be I don't think that @amirm tries to strictly adhere to the Harman target but rather use it as a guide.
What I mean is after looking at the EQs he comes up with, quite a few already, and more often that not, the results
tend to exhibit more LF and less HF than the default Harman curve. He confirmed it directly in one thread.
Consequently I made some adjustments to the Harman curve within the "taste" range several times mentioned by Olive.
Essentially, the regression error becomes flatter this way.
It is entirely debatable of course but to me it makes sense as no matter how golden his ears are he is a population of one...
Some people may have similar tastes and like his EQ some might not.
This way his EQ are consistent i.e. are in improvement in terms of score from "his point of hearing".
I might be wrong be I don't think that @amirm tries to strictly adhere to the Harman target but rather use it as a guide.
What I mean is after looking at the EQs he comes up with, quite a few already, and more often that not, the results
tend to exhibit more LF and less HF than the default Harman curve. He confirmed it directly in one thread.
Consequently I made some adjustments to the Harman curve within the "taste" range several times mentioned by Olive.
Essentially, the regression error becomes flatter this way.
It is entirely debatable of course but to me it makes sense as no matter how golden his ears are he is a population of one...
Some people may have similar tastes and like his EQ some might not.
This way his EQ are consistent i.e. are in improvement in terms of score from "his point of hearing".
Ouch, not what I expected. So much for the spiritual successor to the AD(X)2000...
The ATH-R70x is looking a lot better actually. Comparable to HD6-- performance.