Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)

[LaL]

The ums drove me nuts after I watched it. Was not aware of it at all while doing the video. And yes, having to edit would be a killer and reduce the number I can do by a large factor.

@amirm I didn't even notice the um's - the video was great, I feel a lot of people actually know what the graphs mean now after this video.
'Moar' Videos Please

 

[AudioSceptic]

Amir took the photo when he was visiting a temple on a business trip.

Thanks, but it does look familiar.

 

[gvl]

The AM modulation is a result of beating between the test tone and the mirror image tone.

I might be wrong but I thought that AM modulation only happens in presence of non-linearity. You're showing full-scale HF signals which are not present in music. Do you have similar results at typical levels in music for these frequencies? Not necessarily saying it's not an issue, but it should be put in a proper context, i.e. it doesn't really matter for real music.

 

[pma]

I might be wrong but I thought that AM modulation only happens in presence of non-linearity. You're showing full-scale HF signals which are not present in music. Do you have similar results at typical levels in music for these frequencies? Not necessarily saying it's not an issue, but it should be put in a proper context, i.e. it doesn't really matter for real music.

It is a beating of 2 close frequencies that looks same as AM in the spectrum. Same beating is in the case of 19+20 kHz IMD test. Call it as you like, it makes no difference. The beats are at difference frequency and if there is an amplifier nonlinearity in the chain after the DAC, beats are converted to intermodulation distortion product, which is not a non-issue. Mirror frequencies do create a problem, at least possible problem.

 

[gvl]

It is a beating of 2 close frequencies that looks same as AM in the spectrum. Same beating is in the case of 19+20 kHz IMD test. Call it as you like, it makes no difference. The beats are at difference frequency and if there is an amplifier nonlinearity in the chain after the DAC, beats are converted to intermodulation distortion product, which is not a non-issue. Mirror frequencies do create a problem, at least possible problem.

Then you made it sound like that beating is a problem when it is not. IMD is or can be.

 

[thunderchicken]

Topping should make a fully featured multi-ch AVR, or AVP with Dirac. I'm sure they'd knock it out of the park, as they've proven time and time again to put in a lot of effort into their engineering.

Man, if they could keep it under $1500, they'd put the majors out of business! I'd have one in every room...

 

[ElNino]

Since Wolfson is now Cirrus, isn't it that segment they are trying to target with wm8742?
And yes I know "only" PCM 192kHz and DSD256... Talking about spec war.

The WM8742 is not a new design... the CS43198 used in this DAC is actually the first "high end" design from the team that they acquired from Wolfson. I'm excited to see Topping use it here. Thus far it's tended to be more common in portable devices or the odd high end pro audio design (like the Antelope Audio Amari), with little in between.

 

[Ajax]

Hi Amir, thanks for the review. You really do provide an excellent service to the audiophile/music lovers community.

Have you received a price guide yet from Topping? I can't see it updated in your review and I really don't want to search 13 pages of comments.

 

[TimW]

Secret Sauce.
JK TRS Bal output only.

Oh I was thinking they might be the balanced RCA's from Khadas.

 

[ElNino]

BTW, one of the intriguing things about the CS43198 is that the linear phase filters aren't really linear phase, just very close to it. You can see this in the impulse responses in the datasheet, as well as in the mention of having "pseudo-linear" phase filters (page 2) and "phase-compensated" filters (page 111, in respect of the non-minimum phase filters). I'm cool with this, it's actually a pretty reasonable design choice to me, though it doesn't go as far in that direction as the intermediate phase filter AKM has provided on their recent chips.

 

[catbb67]

Base on a quick look of the video, I like how large the various items are displayed on the LED screen, e.g. the input, the mode, the volume, etc. Wonder what other info. is displayed.

 

[bennetng]

intermediate phase filter AKM has provided on their recent chips.

Cirrus Logic did that long time ago (CS4398)
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/07/measurements-focusrite-forte-usb-audio.html

Including near 20 years old Creative soundcards (CS4382)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dx3pro-dac-and-headphone-amp.4967/post-123644

Like what @AnalogSteph said

One peculiarity of theirs was using partially IIR (minimal phase) filters when everyone also was all FIR (linear phase). I think this has gotten way more common now.

 

[The Jniac]

Well, I finally know what Amir looks like. Moving on, I am continuously amazed at what these DACs can do. We need to develop better measurement equipment so that we can actually quantify the imperfections.

 

[LifeTiltz]

I wanted to ask you a while ago if I could start a YouTube channel with you. I’m very happy that you started one. I wanted to help you out filming and running the reviews. I’m honestly so happy we have some facts based reviews! Fking finally!

 

[capslock]

The WM8742 is not a new design... the CS43198 used in this DAC is actually the first "high end" design from the team that they acquired from Wolfson. I'm excited to see Topping use it here. Thus far it's tended to be more common in portable devices or the odd high end pro audio design (like the Antelope Audio Amari), with little in between.

The WM8742, according to its own data sheet, does not come close. 120 dB unweighted SNR and 100 dB THD (not THD+N).

 

[ElNino]

The WM8742, according to its own data sheet, does not come close. 120 dB unweighted SNR and 100 dB THD (not THD+N).

It's impressive how much DACs have gotten better since 2007 when the WM8741/2 came out.

 

[Human Bass]

Price please

 

[amirm]

Have you received a price guide yet from Topping?

I have not heard back so I think they are on vacation.

 

[pma]

Then you made it sound like that beating is a problem when it is not. IMD is or can be.

Not sure that you understand the issue. Beating transfers to IMD on any nonlinearity in the audio chain. For example in the speaker. That's the same principle like the CCIF test signal 19+20kHz transfers into 1kHz on any nonlinearity. Signal 19+20kHz itself creates beating which is a non issue, and the IMD tone 1kHz is an issue. Now, in our test, the DAC has created a twin tone, in our example, which was not in the original signal. If we have a 21kHz signal and poor filter attenuation, we get mirror at 23.1kHz, for 44.1kHz sampling frequency. We have a new tone 23.1 kHz which beats with the original 21 kHz at 2.1 kHz difference frequency. This would be a non issue if there was not a nonlinearity in the audio chain. But it is not the case, the nonlinearity is always there. The tweeter's nonlinearity will definitely create 2.1 kHz difference IMD tone which would be audible, though the original 21kHz and its 23.1 kHz mirror are both inaudible. And this is the potential issue. For this reason higher Fs of the source data, like 96 kHz, is always an advantage. Requirements to interpolation filter are much lower.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Oh I was thinking they might be the balanced RCA's from Khadas.

Those are so bullshit. Fuck those. Cost much higher than 4.4mm. So why in the fuck would anyone use that. We had that as an option but found it's purely impossible to use in a product.