Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[Bear123]

Ok so this processor doesn't have SOTA measured performance, but there are a lot of folks proclaiming that this unit is complete and utter garbage and broken, while folks have $50,000 pair of Mark Levinson amps with worse SINAD, and that's completely fine, and audiophile, and high fidelity.

Seriously, people need to get a grip. Certainly, there's a good argument for using a Denon 3700, 6700, or 8500 over this. But .003% SINAD is honestly better than the majority of exorbitantly expensive audiophile monoblock amps that no one seems too concerned about.

Having said that, I agree that this unit does not achieve excellence in measured performance compared to equal and lower priced alternatives in the market place. It would get a hard pass from me. But certainly not due to any audibility issues.

 

[StefaanE]

So I bought an AVR, and in my mediocre room with middle class speakers, it sounds OK, at least without direct comparison with something really better.

I can relate to that. It’s difficult to compare setups, simply going and listening to a few tracks at a dealer’s doesn’t cut the mustard, so to speak.

 

[Vasr]

??? Clearly not the case here. There is almost no measurement that one could be proud of.

I agree. This was the one with the "10 things broken" (figuratively speaking). The decapitated panther cannot resolve between this and the HTP-1 which looks like a saint compared to this except for one debatable thing.

 

[amirm]

Ok so this processor doesn't have SOTA measured performance, but there are a lot of folks proclaiming that this unit is complete and utter garbage and broken, while folks have $50,000 pair of Mark Levinson amps with worse SINAD, and that's completely fine, and audiophile, and high fidelity.

I have not reviewed any $50,000 amps. If you are speaking of amps I own, I am not recommending them to anyone. For now though, these are stereophile measurements of said amp:

That is about 0.004% which translates into a SINAD of 88 dB. That is 10 dB better than average of some 120 amplifiers. And it produces 1 killowatt of power. I have yet to test any amp that produces 1 killiwatt of power let alone doing it superbly.

The Anthem AVM60 on the other hand is well below average performer for AVRs and AVPs. Its noise and distortion will be additive to anything downstream. To have less than 0.5 dB effect on the amp above, it would need to have a SINAD of 98 dB which it does not have:

Anyone buying this $3,000 processor would be in the market for state of the art amplification from Purifi to Hypex and Benchmark. For those platforms, you better have SINAD approaching 120 dB, not 91.

So we have our bearings right, thank you very much.

 

[Dmitri]

Hi!

i didnt mean owners! I meant people from the company itself.

but thanks for the reply anyway

//Mike

I was horribly offended...really. ; )

Certainly can’t deny disappointment in the measurements, but I also look at it as a different animal altogether. Sure Anthem touts their “musicality,” but ultimately it’s an HT receiver for movies...where for the most part, if sounds are being steered to the right place with doors slamming behind you and nuclear explosions shaking the room like they ought to it performs that function fairly well. I can’t speak for the onboard amps, but the grapevine has it that the x10 series had superior amplification than the x20 series. (I’m sure someone will burn me for that) I use analog pre out for stereo, and my still surviving Oh dear god please don’t die Oppo 83se’s DAC to feed the two front channels of my Rotel 1095. I still use the ARC processing plus sub, so obviously it’s hardly an unfettered signal by the time it gets to my ears. I limit ARC to 500 Hz. and it sounds pretty damn good to me. So I’m satisfied. But no way in hell am I going to spend the kind of money that Anthem charges for even their cheapest prepro as a future replacement. And 8K? Who cares? I don’t sit two feet away from my television...nor does anyone else in their right mind.

Likely I’ll purchase a Denon next time and hope that Audyssey doesn’t disappoint...or spring for the MRX 740...because I’m an irrepressible ARC fan boy.... ; )

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

If you limit range to that with auddssy apparently it's a lot better

No way. You are in denial.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

You probably have not tried the App. Without the App, Audyssey forced you to accept the BBC dip, and EQ full range, and they probably don't do well above the room transition frequency. To some people that's a show stopper already. Anthem MRX receivers can EQ up to 5 kHz by default (not sure about the newest models) but I believe you can limit to lower frequencies.

Of course it can. Doesn't need to limit. It took Audyssey 20 years to "app" the problem away? Every time I used Audyssey, the cats, dogs and vermin would vacate. Maybe I should become an exterminator.

 

[Bear123]

I have not reviewed any $50,000 amps. If you are speaking of amps I own, I am not recommending them to anyone. For now though, these are stereophile measurements of said amp:

That is about 0.004% which translates into a SINAD of 88 dB. That is 10 dB better than average of some 120 amplifiers. And it produces 1 killowatt of power. I have yet to test any amp that produces 1 killiwatt of power let alone doing it superbly.

The Anthem AVM60 on the other hand is well below average performer for AVRs and AVPs. Its noise and distortion will be additive to anything downstream. To have less than 0.5 dB effect on the amp above, it would need to have a SINAD of 98 dB which it does not have:

Anyone buying this $3,000 processor would be in the market for state of the art amplification from Purifi to Hypex and Benchmark. For those platforms, you better have SINAD approaching 120 dB, not 91.

So we have our bearings right, thank you very much.

I 100% agree that this processor does not perform up to snuff for a $3,000 dedicated processor without even possessing any amplification, when cheaper Denon AVR's have better performance.

What effect would a 91 dB SINAD from this processor have on an amp with an 88 dB SINAD?

Do you think people would notice a difference between this processor and an 88 dB amp, vs a 98 dB processor and a 88 dB amp? In real life, not with headphones in an anechoic chamber with test tones or something. This is the point I'm making. Not that it doesn't fall short of the performance that it should achieve, but that people are being unrealistic about what they think they can hear or perceive in terms of sound quality. I agree with the criticisms of lackluster engineering/measured performance. But also putting things into perspective as I think folks go nuts over inaudible noise/distortion but are ok with much higher noise distortion in amps and speakers that cannot be subjectively noticed.

 

[HT Upgradeitus]

I am a huge fan of Amir's reviews and the Audio Science Review testing methodology and thoroughness.

I also have a severe case of Corona virus inspired home theater upgradeitus, I was really looking forward to one of Amir's reviews of the new AVM70/AVM90 before pulling the trigger on my aging Rotel kit.

This Anthem AVM60 review (autopsy of this unit) comes the week of the highly anticipated release of the new AVM70 and soon to be released in March the AVM90 and leaves me thinking...On paper, the AVM 70 looks really promising, but we all need an AVM 70 review to see how it performs on the test bench.

Anthem is not a big box brand and appears to work really hard to bring Audiophile sound to us home theater fans at fair prices. I would love to know how the Anthem's sound from experienced ears in your HT setup. Does anyone have first hand experience on how the Anthem AVM 60 or AVM70 sound vs Marantz AV8805 vs Krell Foundation?

It would be great if Amir can get an AVM 70/90 ASAP to do a followup to this AVM 60 review to see if this AVM 60 was truly a fluke.

Let's hope this AVM 60 was a one-off bad apple. We all need gear with great specs and the mythical, Audiophile sound at a reasonable price we all crave.

I look forward to Amir's new unbiased reviews of the upcoming Anthem gear!

For now, it's time to clear my head and listen to an SACD of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on my trusty Oppo BDP 105 and B&W's.View attachment 111053

As a followup to the AVM 60 vs AVM 70 discussion flying back and forth, I came across another review of the AVM 60 from 2017.
2017 Review of AVM 60 for comparison

I hope that Amir can do a complete review of the AVM 70/ AVM 90 when these units are made available for Audio Science Review testing. Let's give the Anthem a fair chance to strut its stuff so we can make unbiased decisions on sound and video quality. Let's hope Anthem put in considerable brian power into making the AVM 70/90 much better than the 4 year old AVM 60. Let's give Anthem the chance to tweak firmware and get these new products dialed in.

All any of us really want is really good sounding music and movies in our homes.

 

[RichB]

I 100% agree that this processor does not perform up to snuff for a $3,000 dedicated processor without even possessing any amplification, when cheaper Denon AVR's have better performance.

What effect would a 91 dB SINAD from this processor have on an amp with an 88 dB SINAD?

Do you think people would notice a difference between this processor and an 88 dB amp, vs a 98 dB processor and a 88 dB amp? In real life, not with headphones in an anechoic chamber with test tones or something. This is the point I'm making. Not that it doesn't fall short of the performance that it should achieve, but that people are being unrealistic about what they think they can hear or perceive in terms of sound quality. I agree with the criticisms of lackluster engineering/measured performance. But also putting things into perspective as I think folks go nuts over inaudible noise/distortion but are ok with much higher noise distortion in amps and speakers that cannot be subjectively noticed.

For the record, 0.015 THD at 1 watt is SINAD of 75 dB that is not well suited to efficient speakers. The processor is a better match.

- Rich

 

[Bear123]

For the record, 0.015 THD at 1 watt is SINAD of 75 dB that is not well suited to efficient speakers. The processor is a better match.

- Rich

What product are you saying has .015 THD at 1 watt? Are you bringing up this point due to normal/moderate listening levels that don't require much power?

 

[RichB]

What product are you saying has .015 THD at 1 watt? Are you bringing up this point due to normal/moderate listening levels that don't require much power?

That is one point, 0.015 is eyeballing the 50K amp.
Amps best measurements are higher power but that is not where it will be most audible.

- Rich

 

[Bear123]

That is one point, 0.015 is eyeballing the 50K amp.
Amps best measurements are higher power but that is not where it will be most audible.

- Rich

I think I see your point now. Are you saying that a 91 dB processor won't have a noticeably deleterious effect on an amp with a 75 dB SINAD at 1 watt i.e. it wil be 74.9 rather than 75? I did the math on what affect a 91 dB processor would have on a 88 dB amp....it would reduce SINAD to 86.2. Not ideal, certainly.

It seems very few audiophiles use high sensitivity speakers. In fact, just the opposite..the overwhelming seem to prefer low sensitivity. Very few even seem to be above 90 dB.

 

[respice finem]

Speaking of Audyssey (the XT variant, not the more advanced XT32), my personal experience with it is, above 200Hz it didn't do much to the (already reasonably good) FR, apart from setting a minimal BBC dip and (and this is good) adjusting for L/R imbalance (approx. 2dB in my L-shaped room), and of course setting the timing (5.1.2) as necessary. I tried the app, but it was IMHO smoothing too much to see what really happens, so I took REW instead.
Where Audyssey completely failed in my case is the bass modes (33 Hz and multiples). After Audyssey those modes were only minimally better. Trying to manually EQ produced strange effects in midrange (such an L-shaped room is terrible acoustically...). I ended up with the "AVR version" of the Antimode box (8033 s-II) between the AVR's sub out and the sub. I know its sibling wasn't good in terms of SINAD, but I gave the smaller one a try (in low freq. noise and distortion are less audible anyway). The procedure is, find the place where the modal maximum is (in my case the corners of the L, so I took the one in the middle), place your sub there and run the Antimode's EQ (warning extreme levels) and then Audyssey (to adjust for the additional delay by the Antimode). The bass is quite nice now, with the modes almost completely gone, stupidly I can't find the graphs anymore on the German site where I had dropped them...
tl, dr: I wouldn't take Audyssey (at least not the XT variant) next time I buy an AVR. Either the Antimode 8033 s-II box, or the more advanced XT32. It would be interesting to see a comparison test of current "room correction" systems in the same test room (there are many tests around but with different rooms, it's always apples vs. oranges).

 

[respice finem]

It seems very few audiophiles use high sensitivity speakers. In fact, just the opposite..the overwhelming seem to prefer low sensitivity. Very few even seem to be above 90 dB.

As one still "living in a passive speaker environment": It's not because I prefer it, which in itself would not be too smart, a waste of energy. Either you can have mediocre sensitivity / efficiency with complex "graveyard of parts" crossovers, giving you nice smooth frequency (and hopefully phase) response, or simplified crossovers with few parts, higher efficiency and a more "rogue" response. Additional parts in the signal path will decrease sensitivity, same goes for multiple bass drivers. An example of such a complex crossover: https://www.hifitest.de/images/testbilder/big/nubert-nuvero-170-lautsprecher-stereo-44190.jpg
That's the great advantage of a fully active design, you need no passive crossover at all and with DSP and a dedicated amp for each driver, you can program corrections and filters unthinkable in passive, analog designs, while maintaining optimum power efficiency. The down side (there's always one) is the higher risk of parts failing, because effectively you have a system in a box, needing only a source signal and mains power to work. You also need good quality low-noise DSPs and amps in those active designs, because the power amp sitting richt behind the driver is at "full throttle" all the time = potential for hiss in a nearfield environment. A workaround is a dB limiter switch many such speakers have.
If I would build my system from scratch today, I'd take the active way though, because the pros outweigh the cons. It's no coincidence almost all pro speakers are active/DSP based designs nowadays.

 

[respice finem]

I can relate to that. It’s difficult to compare setups, simply going and listening to a few tracks at a dealer’s doesn’t cut the mustard, so to speak.

Even in one's own home it's difficult. Our "sonic memory" is less accurate than we like to believe, and quick speaker switching between two AVRs is not trivial, unless you have two sets of speakers... Or switching speaker sets for the same AVR. Then, the potential for bias (shiny new gear...) This is why, while I trust measurements over hearing alone any day, I'm aware of not hearing many "sins" of my gear (and room), at age of 53, anyway. Reality bites, then again, with my hearing as it was at age of 16 I would certainly be less happy with what I have now.

 

[amirm]

What effect would a 91 dB SINAD from this processor have on an amp with an 88 dB SINAD?

If it is noise, then if you drive that amp to its high power levels, you are going to hear it through speakers.

 

[ace_xp2]

It's not that this is bad per se, it's more that for $1700 less you can pick up a 3700h. And while I've seen little to no evidence that ARC is better then xt32 + app, what I have seen is what you can do with $1700 put into something other then a nameplate. Extra sub? Better speakers? Lots of options!

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

So I bought an AVR, and in my mediocre room with middle class speakers, it sounds OK, at least without direct comparison with something really better.

Same here.
I use a Yamaha RX-V 377, their entry level model and it cost me a whopping 270 bucks.
It's a wee bit noisy when I go past -20dB on the display but otherwise the sound is fine.
I do work with a nearfield setup though, so that's probably the reason why power isn't an issue, even when driving 4 speakers.

 

[ace_xp2]

If it is noise, then if you drive that amp to its high power levels, you are going to hear it through speakers.

So, isn't this is why sinad kind of sucks? It could be noise, it could be distortion. If it's noise, then it's bad. But if it's distortion, most speakers distort notably more then that, do they not?