Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[Pdxwayne]

My point is that it is not likely to be shortcomings there that give audible differences, since nobody could hear that.

OTOH using a reconstruction filter that doesn't filter out artefacts will produce images well into the audible range and be well and truly audible on some, maybe all, music.
Based on what you write in your linked thread it is the difference in sound between a reconstruction filter which conforms and one that does not which you and your family are hearing.
No surprise there IME, I have the same experience myself.

Although my multimeter is not accurate, I still see differences in voltage after 5khz, between e30 (filter 1) and KTB, even after volume match at 120Hz. I wonder what I should ask my son to listen for? Sharper highs? Louder highs?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Although my multimeter is not accurate, I still see differences in voltage after 5khz, between e30 (filter 1) and KTB, even after volume match at 120Hz. I wonder what I should ask my son to listen for? Sharper highs? Louder highs?

Just listen for sound differences, I would not be specific and it won't necessarily be at high frequency.
I would also compare filter 5 with filter 1 on the Topping.

 

[solderdude]

Although my multimeter is not accurate, I still see differences in voltage after 5khz, between e30 (filter 1) and KTB, even after volume match at 120Hz. I wonder what I should ask my son to listen for? Sharper highs? Louder highs?

Just record the output of both DACs using white noise 44.1kHz (at least 2 mins recording). preferably using a 24/192 recording.
Then you can prove it to the world.

 

[dasdoing]

I think the reason people are believing this is that recording engeniers talk about "DACs sounding diferent" all the time. when they say that they are actualy refering to the mic preamps, which indeed all have very distinct sound

 

[sergeauckland]

I think the reason people are believing this is that recording engeniers talk about "DACs sounding diferent" all the time. when they say that they are actualy refering to the mic preamps, which indeed all have very distinct sound

I'm not sure about that, as a mic amp like any other amplifier with low noise and a flat response should be indistinguishable from any other similar mic amp. However, the microphones themselves do sound considerably different, both because of frequency response differences and directional properties that affect how much of the venue ambiance they pick up. Cardioid mics have different proximity effects so will sound different even on the same voice or instrument depending on how close the sound source is.

S.

 

[dasdoing]

I'm not sure about that, as a mic amp like any other amplifier with low noise and a flat response.

today they are flat, they weren't "in the good old days" afaik.
also many engeniers like to overdrive the pres to get "warmth" (aka distorsion). when you do that they will all behave very diferently

 

[sergeauckland]

today they are flat, they weren't "in the good old days" afaik.
also many engeniers like to overdrive the pres to get "warmth" (aka distorsion). when you do that they will all behave very diferently

Well yes, OK, if one's in the habit of abusing their equipment, then all bets are off. Power amps can sound different if allowed to clip. ADCs can sound different of allowed to clip, any so-called engineer that overdrives a mic amp should be horsewhipped on the steps of their club and shunned by polite society.

S.

 

[Frank Dernie]

today they are flat, they weren't "in the good old days" afaik.

Not many are flat and the ones that go to higher frequencies, whilst flatter in the mid frequencies are less sensitive and higher noise, a poor compensation for the FR IMO.

 

[Frank Dernie]

any so-called engineer that overdrives a mic amp should be horsewhipped on the steps of their club and shunned by polite society.

Quite so.

 

[dasdoing]

here is what Neumann has to say about the subject https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/will-a-better-preamp-improve-your-sound

 

[dasdoing]

so-called engineer that overdrives a mic amp should be horsewhipped on the steps of their club and shunned by polite society.

S.

actualy harmonic distorsion is artificialy added in almost all productions (so called analog sound)....not talking about the mic gain stage here

 

[Pdxwayne]

Just listen for sound differences, I would not be specific and it won't necessarily be at high frequency.
I would also compare filter 5 with filter 1 on the Topping.

Already have a summary here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-e30-listening-tests.17988/post-607607

Unfortunately, they refused to do voltage match listening with filter 5 again.....

 

[raif71]

Already have a summary here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-e30-listening-tests.17988/post-607607

Unfortunately, they refused to do voltage match listening with filter 5 again.....

 

[Julf]

And eventually people forgot about the scientists in the tower, who quietly continued their work, rarely visiting the people of the valley or the communities on the clifftops, hardly noticing their squabbles which, from a distance, sounded like static, or the whispering of tiny waves sifting through innumerable grains of sand.

Ramen!

 

[raif71]

Ramen!

Who ate the ramen..all gone now... . Seriously, that interesting post got deleted.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Just record the output of both DACs using white noise 44.1kHz (at least 2 mins recording). preferably using a 24/192 recording.
Then you can prove it to the world.

I would say my consistent measurements (not accurate due to my multimeter capabilities, but showing a trend in differences) already showing the world indeed there are differences.

See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-e30-listening-tests.17988/post-609611

Next is to do blind listening test with speakers to see if I can consistently identify that very small over 5Khz differences between KTB and voltage matched (at 120Hz) e30 with filter 1.

 

[solderdude]

I would say my consistent measurements (not accurate due to my multimeter capabilities, but showing a trend in differences) already showing the world indeed there are differences.

See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-e30-listening-tests.17988/post-609611

Next is to do blind listening test with speakers to see if I can consistently identify that very small over 5Khz differences between KTB and voltage matched (at 120Hz) e30 with filter 1.

Nope... next to do is record and upload the evidence.

 

[item]

Who ate the ramen..all gone now... . Seriously, that interesting post got deleted.

Julf, my old friend, and raif71, whom I know not - so it goes. The OP expressed incredulity about others holding an opinion he considers unthinkable. The answer surely lies in understanding the different ways people think - hence the little fable, which seemed apposite enough to me, but it's not my site.

“How can you think that?” is a question that can be posed with serious intent, or rhetorically meant as “Aren't you stupid.” I interpreted the OP's intent as the former not the latter.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Nope... next to do is record and upload the evidence.

I thought about that.

But all I have is 8 years old Behringer U-Control UCA202. I don't trust it at all since it got very bad channels cross talk issue the last time I tried to do REW measurements years ago.

I am not about to buy something new that I won't be using for years just to show additional proof.

I did the work already. Steps clearly spellout. It is now time for someone around to world to validate my findings.

 

[mansr]

But all I have is 8 years old Behringer U-Control UCA202. I don't trust it at all since it got very bad channels cross talk issue the last time I tried to do REW measurements years ago.

Not a problem if you're only using one channel.