I am reading your comments, but I don't think it would be appropriate to reply on this thread.@Ilkka Rissanen
He's the top guy @ Genelec, maybe he'll read this and pass it on
I am reading your comments, but I don't think it would be appropriate to reply on this thread.@Ilkka Rissanen
He's the top guy @ Genelec, maybe he'll read this and pass it on
You're always welcome, we're all Genelec fans hereI am reading your comments, but I don't think it would be appropriate to reply on this thread.
You're always welcome, we're all Genelec fans here
Guilty as charged, I used to do some subwoofer measurements.I do not know if we are all Genelec fans here but if it is the same Ilkka that was doing those subwoofer tests ages ago he has my deepest respect.
I received my MA 1 today and tried it quickly. I post my first impressions, but have to digest them a bit and try it out some more in the next days.
This is what the calculated target for my room (14 sqm, very dry, 1.6m distance, KH310 + 750 DSP) looks like. I didn´t modify it today. As you can see it is not "flat" and it is possible to modify it.
View attachment 97835
And this is what i got from REW:
Green: Estimated in room response KH310 only for reference, measured by Amir.
Red: The best i could achive by manually optimizing over the last months. Average of MMM-measurements (L + sub) + (R + Sub) with room EQ and settings described here.
Blue: Average of MMM-measurements (L + sub) + (R + Sub) after Auto Alignment with the MA 1 (for this REW measurement i used the UMIK for comparability)
View attachment 97836
Obviously i have to investigate the grand canyon between 80 und 100 Hz. In the past this was influenced by the delay of the sub and i had to chose between closing this gap and a smoother response between 100 und 200 Hz. So there is still optimizing to do for me...
Edit: 1.6m distance, not 16m - thanks Mesh.
Oh wow - that newest MA 1 is looking excellent. Did you move the sub to one of the sides or backwards/forward? Any chance of an R separate, L separate and Sub separate REW (rather than R + sub and L + sub) in your new position? Ideally, one without MA 1 and one with MA 1.Follow up: I experimented with different postions. I found a better sub position and put the mains a bit farther away and apart (1.70 m). This is what i am getting now with KH310, KH750 and MA-1 - i have to listen to it, but i am very happy at the moment.
Green: Estimated in room response KH310 only for reference, measured by Amir.
Red: The best i could achive by manually optimizing over the last months. Average of MMM-measurements (L + sub) + (R + Sub) with room EQ and settings described here.
Grey: First try with same positions as red line (blue line in my quoted post) -
Black: Last try with better positions - Average of MMM-measurements (L + sub) + (R + Sub) after Auto Alignment with the MA 1 (for this REW measurement i used the UMIK for comparability)
View attachment 100275
L+R single sweep at LP (green: R, red: L)
View attachment 100279
R only, Group Delay
View attachment 100281
R only, spectrogramm
View attachment 100282
Oh wow - that newest MA 1 is looking excellent. Did you move the sub to one of the sides or backwards/forward? Any chance of an R separate, L separate and Sub separate REW (rather than R + sub and L + sub) in your new position? Ideally, one without MA 1 and one with MA 1.
Thanks - sub closer to the R I suspect then? To help that right speaker at 85 Hz, I mean.The sub is now between R and L, but at 33% of room width (before it was at 25%). Maybe i do separate measurements another time, but for this weekend i used up every bit of tolerance of my housemates. I don´t know how to do it yet, though, because i can´t use the ipad app anymore. I think i have to change cable connection for different measurements....
Thanks - sub closer to the R I suspect then? To help that right speaker at 85 Hz, I mean.
Don't sweat it. I am starting to suspect your 2nd graph is without MA 1 as the lowest bass looks different than your 1st graph. If so, that says plenty about what MA 1 could compensate for.
Did you measure those with the MA-1 mic? If no, I would be very interested if you could do that for one measurment.I made some before/after measurements again, but this time the MA 1-correction vs. local mode (no EQ).
Single sweep measurements at LP, 1.60 meters distance.
KH310 without KH750 and without EQ vs. KH310+750+MA 1 (Average of L+R)
Averages
View attachment 104817
Sub only; local mode (no EQ) vs network mode (EQ set by MA 1):
View attachment 104818
EDIT: Additionally, comparison of L+R (local vs. network)
View attachment 104842
I tried to attach an mdat-file of the 8 measurement (L+R local, L+sub + R+sub network, L+sub + R+sub local, sub local, sub network) if someone is interested in comparison of phase, GD and so on. But i don´t know how to do that - the filesize is always too large, even a single measurement.
If someone knows how to share it, you can download it here, but it´s limited to 5 downloads only: https://www.file2send.eu/de/downloa...ztNePw48hga7icEni2cQyMChOKwT0NgTuAZuXNaTigySY
Did you measure those with the MA-1 mic? If no, I would be very interested if you could do that for one measurment.
I added a KH750 + MA-1 to my KH310A (so same setup and similar room, 4.89x3.57x2.40 m ) on friday, and while it seems to fill up the typical dip from 70-130Hz, I now have a very steep/high-order bass roll-off/lowcut from 60-70Hz when measuring with REW? Don‘t get me wrong, the sound is a lot better with the MA-1 auto alignment, I still think I should not lose all bass below 65Hz - especially with the addition of the sub.
Maybe this is due to subwoofer placement (below my studio desk directly under the right KH310A on the desk, close to my basstraps, 40cm from the front wall)? I also tried a sub position more to the middle and closer to the front wall but I got the same steep roll-off.
The strange thing is that it doesn‘t necessarily sound like there is such a steep roll off and the Neumann app also shows a fairly linear response with, and something close to my old measurements without the MA-1 auto-alignment active.
Direct comparison of KH310s vs kh310+kh750+ma-1 aligment made it obvious that there is much more bass with the sub, even though on my old measurements without sub I got modal resonance like you did at 34 and 67 Hz, which are apparently completely gone if the measurement can be believed.
So I wonder if that is due to the mic (I sent back the other one I had), the sub position or just that the frequencies below 60hz aren‘t that important even for bass heavy music - and that the removal of the more hearable dip from 75-130Hz masked the disappearance.
I will make systematic measurements tomorrow and post them here...
I am back with bad news.
View attachment 96810
I think the software already supports that?
I'm also old-fashioned and primarily want to play CDs from a CD-player.
Btw, does anybody know btw if the KH 80 DSP speakers can be controlled wirelessly, or if they require wired connection?
No. MA 1 supports Stereo only.
AFAIK Neumann´s primary target group is professional users.
KH 80 manual: https://en-de.neumann.com/product_files/8995/download (spoiler: wired to a network-switch)
Thanks for your answer. My old mic was a Beyerdynamic MM1 and I didn't use a cal file for the measurments.No, i used a UMIK-1 for those measurements. At some point i made a few measurements with the MA 1, too, but i don´t remember really. They didn´t show any strange rolloffs, though.
I THINK these two measurements are with 2 different microphones (UMIK 1 (violet, with cal-file) vs. MA1 (green, without cal-file); Left channel, MMM, var smoothing), but with different settings! If i remember correctly the dip at 300Hz and the different treble roll-off are due to different EQ-settings i tried at this time. If this is true, at least bass is identical with both microphone. Sorry, but i don´t know for sure what i did there. I didn´t try to systematically compare the microphones.
View attachment 105262
My dealer (who spoke to the manufacturer about it) told me the MA 1 should work well for measurements even without a calibration file, because it should be "very neutral".
Could it be you still have the calibration file from your old mic loaded?
I tried to attach an mdat-file of the 8 measurement (L+R local, L+sub + R+sub network, L+sub + R+sub local, sub local, sub network) if someone is interested in comparison of phase, GD and so on.