Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[Blumlein 88]

Not at all. There is no way I can evaluate headphones properly with just listening. Measurements are a must to point to potential problem areas where experimentation then starts to see if those areas need to be addressed or not. This is far from slapping a pair of headphones on and going on and on with random vocabulary to describe the sound.

While I agree it is far from slapping the phones on and going on with random vocabulary, to someone who doesn't know it reads not much different. Not sure what you can do about that. Purely subjective reviewers have years writing descriptive commentary that sounds like it could be something real.

 

[WLVCA]

I purchased HD 800 S headphones (used) two weeks ago. Have thoroughly enjoyed them, especially the soundstage.

This review was quite timely in my case and Amir's suggested EQ settings are quite good in my opinion.

Thanks, Amir.

 

[StevenEleven]

For a high-end model like this, from a reputable manufacturer like Senn, it would be nice if we could hear from their designers and engineers (not the marketing department!) to see what they were going for in designing these headphones. Surely in that price bracket the tonal balance of these was deliberate and they could pursue whatever general tonal balance they chose. I would very much like to hear their views. What is good or accurate or preferable in a headphone may be incredibly elusive, IMHO. It’d be cool to round out our perspectives.

I‘ve got no skin in the game. The only Senn I have is an old pair of HD580s. Very nice. My favorite headphones are an old pair of the obscure Sony CD780s that I got from a Sony store on close-out.

 

[richard12511]

More experienced listeners tend to prefer less bass and more treble.
Older people tend to prefer less bass and more treble.
I am certainly a more experienced listener now than when I was 20.
I certainly have much more experience of what actual musical instruments sound like.

You seem to be saying that older listeners (like yourself) prefer less bass(and more treble) because they're a better judge of audio quality(via having more experience), but we know that this is actually the opposite of what's true. We become worse at judging sound quality as we get older, not better, which is why Floyd Toole has said many times that he stopped participating in Harman's listening tests years ago.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Hi,

One question (and it is serious).

As amirm says, the HD800s should be EQ'ed as any other headphone.
Let's assume that I get a headphone that is decently designed and engineered.
If I proceed with nice EQ'ing, will it not sound more or less the same as the HD800s ?

So my question is : will 2 properly EQ'ed headphones still be distinguishable in sound or not ?
Like : will you be able to tell them apart in a properly performed double blind test ?

Regards.

 

[Doodski]

Hi,

One question (and it is serious).

As amirm says, the HD800s should be EQ'ed as any other headphone.
Let's assume that I get a headphone that is decently designed and engineered.
If I proceed with nice EQ'ing, will it not sound more or less the same as the HD800s ?

So my question is : will 2 properly EQ'ed headphones still be distinguishable in sound or not ?
Like : will you be able to tell them apart in a properly performed double blind test ?

Regards.

I've never heard different headphones that sound identical before or after EQ. There is one poster here that advised after EQing several of his headphones that they all sounded the same.

 

[Erispedia]

Hi,

One question (and it is serious).

As amirm says, the HD800s should be EQ'ed as any other headphone.
Let's assume that I get a headphone that is decently designed and engineered.
If I proceed with nice EQ'ing, will it not sound more or less the same as the HD800s ?

So my question is : will 2 properly EQ'ed headphones still be distinguishable in sound or not ?
Like : will you be able to tell them apart in a properly performed double blind test ?

Regards.

Yes, you can still tell them apart. I mean, different headphones obviously has different design and feel on your head, lol. So, the most difficult blind test would be EQed HD800 vs EQed HD800s.

 

[PenguinMusic]

I've never heard different headphones that sound identical before or after EQ. There is one poster here that advised after EQing several of his headphones that they all sounded the same.

Hi,

OK.

What should EQ achieve : more "transparent" sound or better matching with listener's preferences ?

 

[infinitesymphony]

You're missing the soundstage, which is the HD800's claim to fame. Its mostly a function of driver size and positioning relative to the outer ear and simple frequency response measurements don't capture this.

It's almost the "directivity" of headphones (at least for circumaurals, it doesn't really exist in supraurals or IEMs) and there's no accepted way to measure it yet. This is kind of like if a speaker review left out the polars or DI curve or something. AFIK the only one who's even trying is RTINGS. I'm not convinced of his specific methods and scoring but he is showing that there is something there to measure.

I assumed lower distortion was a major part of the claim to the HD800S's fame, so seeing the HD650 measuring so close was a surprise.

Very curious to see how the HD560S (angled drivers, $200) and HD660S (not angled but using drivers based on HD700, $500) fare.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Yes, you can still tell them apart. I mean, different headphones obviously has different design and feel on your head, lol. So, the most difficult blind test would be EQed HD800 vs EQed HD800s.

Hi,

Does that mean that there is no real way to perform a proper blind test on headphones ?

 

[Erispedia]

Hi,

Does that mean that there is no real way to perform a proper blind test on headphones ?

Well, with speakers, dacs, or amps you dont touch them to listen. But with headphone you have to touch them (with your head/ears) or it won't get proper seal.

 

[Doodski]

Hi,

OK.

What should EQ achieve : more "transparent" sound or better matching with listener's preferences ?

It should achieve better matching with listener's preferences.

 

[PenguinMusic]

It should achieve better matching with listener's preferences.

Hi,

So if I have a headphone that suits my listening tastes without EQ'ing it, then I'm good to go with that one ?

That is cool as I think I just found THE headphone that I like over all others I've listened to.

Regards.

 

[Doodski]

Hi,

So if I have a headphone that suits my listening tastes without EQ'ing it, then I'm good to go with that one ?

That is cool as I think I just found THE headphone that I like over all others I've listened to.

Regards.

If it suits you then that's your headphone. EQ will help most all headphones and speakers though. From a purists old point of view EQing is a bad thing based on phase change and other stuff but the reality is that the phase differences are abundant with or without the EQ and the EQ improvements far outweigh any old view of the EQ's changes. I would EQ your favourite headphones anyway even if you think they sound balanced before hearing them with EQ. Have you tried EQing them and give them a good listen before disabling the EQ and testing them or is this a situation of you enjoying them without trying a EQ adjustment?

 

[PenguinMusic]

If it suits you then that's your headphone. EQ will help most all headphones and speakers though. From a purists old point of view EQing is a bad thing based on phase change and other stuff but the reality is that the phase differences are abundant with or without the EQ and the EQ improvements far outweigh any old view of the EQ's changes. I would EQ your favourite headphones anyway even if you think they sound balanced before hearing them with EQ. Have you tried EQing them and give them a good listen before disabling the EQ and testing them or is this a situation of you enjoying them without trying a EQ adjustment?

Hi,

I've had about 8 or 10 headphones and, for all of them, I felt like something was lacking somewhere.
Some sounded really good, but stiil... I could help having the feeling that something was missing.
What exactly was missing, I cannot really say :-( Subjective feeling probably.

Then I had a chance to give a listen to a new model. Guy lend it to me for a week.
I listend to it and after 5 minutes it was clear that this was THE "sound" I was looking for.

So maybe I should try to EQ it (even though I have no real idea about how to perform that).
But to my ears (and those alone, I won't force anyone to think as I do and this the expression of a purely personal, fully subjective and totally not rational opinion) it already sound as I like .

Besides, I am not sure I could have same EQ setting all over the spectrum of listening circumstances...
I can EQ if the source is the computer, not if it is the dedicated Music Player (as DAC and HP amp do not offer the EQ abilities).

 

[Erispedia]

Hi,

I've had about 8 or 10 headphones and, for all of them, I felt like something was lacking somewhere.
Some sounded really good, but stiil... I could help having the feeling that something was missing.
What exactly was missing, I cannot really say :-( Subjective feeling probably.

Then I had a chance to give a listen to a new model. Guy lend it to me for a week.
I listend to it and after 5 minutes it was clear that this was THE "sound" I was looking for.

So maybe I should try to EQ it (even though I have no real idea about how to perform that).
But to my ears (and those alone, I won't force anyone to think as I do and this the expression of a purely personal, fully subjective and totally not rational opinion) it already sound as I like .

Besides, I am not sure I could have same EQ setting all over the spectrum of listening circumstances...
I can EQ if the source is the computer, not if it is the dedicated Music Player (as DAC and HP amp do not offer the EQ abilities).

If you already got the tonality that you want without EQing, then there's no reason to EQ. Regarding source, Qudelix 5K offers 10 band Parametric EQ aside from regular 10 band GEQ.

 

[PenguinMusic]

If you already got the tonality that you want without EQing, then there's no reason to EQ. Regarding source, Qudelix 5K offers 10 band Parametric EQ aside from regular 10 band GEQ.

Hi,

Cool

The Qudelix 5k : that is the BT receiver that allows to turn a wired HP in a wireless one is it not ?
Or can it also be used as a DAC and pass over the sound to something else ?
Because with those small things I am always somewhat short of power... Even though I do not listen to music very lound and even though my HP aren't the most difficult to drive...

But I was interested in a thing like that indeed.

So may give it a try

 

[amirm]

Hi,

Does that mean that there is no real way to perform a proper blind test on headphones ?

In general yes. So the approach in research is to take one headphone and EQ it to the other headphones under test. Then listeners wear that one headphone and EQ is changed to simulate other headphones and preference score measured. Testing against the real though has shown something like 85% similarity so the method is thought to be reliable enough.

 

[amirm]

For a high-end model like this, from a reputable manufacturer like Senn, it would be nice if we could hear from their designers and engineers (not the marketing department!) to see what they were going for in designing these headphones.

If the marketing material is to be believed, they were going for a diffused sound created with 8 speakers in anechoic chamber. I don't know of any real room with such characteristic but that was the old calibration method.

The measurement they post is very crude (1/3 octave?) which was also surprising (from the manual for 800S):

30 years ago this was the measurement standard. But today? How can they gain any insight from this? And what are these deviations supposed to mean anyway? It seems to show the headphone has more bass???

 

[PenguinMusic]

In general yes. So the approach in research is to take one headphone and EQ it to the other headphones under test. Then listeners wear that one headphone and EQ is changed to simulate other headphones and preference score measured. Testing against the real though has shown something like 85% similarity so the method is thought to be reliable enough.

Hi amirm,

Thanks for taking time to reply

But if you can simulate the other headphone and have 85% similarity with the other headphone, then there's no real reason to choose a headphone for other reasons than comfort and features and build quality... and price maybe.
Provided of course, you can EQ your headphone properly, but that's another story

Or did I misunderstood what you wrote ?