Revel F328Be Speaker Review

[Robbo99999]

They are infrequent. I say the ratio of bookshelf to tower is about 10:1. I currently have a couple of very low end ones to measure and an offer of another Revel in the line from local members.

You could shift the tower reviews to later dates & focus on clearing the speaker backlog, then do the bass work on a tower speaker when you've cleared a good portion of the backlog...then do the tower reviews after. (You could take the offer up from the local Revel Tower owner once you've done the bass work).

 

[Newman]

The weighting of parameters is arbitrary and assessing the outcome by one of the variables is a complication. Is there a single detailed explanation of the entire process?

I tell you what: you change the weightings to anything you want, or better yet use a random number generator, ie arbitrary, and then compare the scores you get for speakers with their DBT preference ratings, and see how ‘arbitrary’ really works. I predict a correlation near to zero.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I tell you what: you change the weightings to anything you want, or better yet use a random number generator, ie arbitrary, and then compare the scores you get for speakers with their DBT preference ratings, and see how ‘arbitrary’ really works. I predict a correlation near to zero.

Well, others have pointed out some weaknesses in it but they also provided me with the links that, over time, I will read. OTOH, I see no reason to accept your challenge since I have no real interest in the project in principle.

 

[restorer-john]

As a retired carpenter, subcontractor...I worked a few jobs where we installed elevator shafts into existing homes, allowing people to remain in there multistory houses as they grew older...

That's what we are going to do at my parents' house, probably sooner rather than later (they are in their late 80s). There's tons of room in the central atrium-style staircase/void to the second floor for a medium sized lift/elevator without going near the existing staircase.

Funny, I pitched the idea to him several years ago, as he'd stoppped carrying amplifiers and gear weighing more than 8kg up and down the stairs.

 

[Helicopter]

I vote for more reviews or more speakers.

The bass is a little bit of a question, with the front/rear port, etc. Amir, after you measure all the bookshelves and get to that other local Revel floor stander, maybe you can take a closer look at that one. Bass is going to depend on room modes so much anyway, and Revel is likely to have done so well with this model, I am just not super interested in digging deeper; there will be more value to me in moving on to the next speaker.

 

[aarons915]

Just a comment about the Salon 2 vs F328, if anyone recalls Kevin Voecks actually posted a double blind of the F228, Salon 2 and Magico A3 I believe, it's been removed now but I believe the Salon 2 was only rated .5 preference ratings higher than the F228 and that difference could very likely be because of the differences in bass. I could easily see the F328 being a statistical tie or slightly besting the Salon 2 in double blinds based off of that.

Also remember that the Salon 2 is being discontinued, I heard they are producing one last batch and they're gone. That could mean that the Be series is just as good or at least close enough to make the ultima 2 series not worth it or maybe they're going to be releasing an Ultima 3 series soon, who knows.

 

[PierreV]

As far as bass is concerned, I find my own perception to be very relative.

For many kinds of music, I can be happy with the bass when listening to bookshelf speakers going to 80-100Hz at best.
It is only when I move to my full-size speakers, maxing out at 30Hz or so and listen to the same track that I realize what I have been missing.
And then, there is another layer when I turn on the subs on the full-size systems.

The next phase is habituation, which makes it very hard to go back from the full size+subs to bookshelves. After a few hours, the bookshelf speakers sound OK again because my brain appears to adjust (even if I know I should be missing something).

But as usual, it's the recording/mixing that matters. Most "modern" stuff seems to be recorded/compressed to sound good on systems that don't go low. Some music that sounds quite OK on a bass limited system even sounds awful and muddy on a 20Hz able system, as if the mastering engineer had forgotten about that zone.

 

[restorer-john]

As far as bass is concerned, I find my own perception to be very relative.

For many kinds of music, I can be happy with the bass when listening to bookshelf speakers going to 80-100Hz at best.
It is only when I move to my full-size speakers, maxing out at 30Hz or so and listen to the same track that I realize what I have been missing.
And then, there is another layer when I turn on the subs on the full-size systems.

The next phase is habituation, which makes it very hard to go back from the full size+subs to bookshelves. After a few hours, the bookshelf speakers sound OK again because my brain appears to adjust (even if I know I should be missing something).

This is 100% correct. Our brains adjust remarkably quickly to speakers. Deficiencies are corrected for subconsciously and strengths become normalized.

That's why single speaker (pairs) demos or buying online are so good for selling speakers, and incredibly poor for determining differences. It's how putrid sounding speakers (think the Andrew Jones Pioneers) can get undeserved reputations. People never compare them instantly A-B with something else in real time.

It's also why people looking a graphs are putting these big Revels in the same category as the baby Genelecs. Put them side by side, crank the music and switch instantly between them and see how that works out.

 

[andyc56]

Can you point to a source for those who don’t know what you’re talking about and would like to learn more? My brief search did not turn much up.

The original paper on DBA was written in German, but there's a similar system called CABS that was the subject of the Ph.D thesis of Adrian Celestinos (which was written in English). Both systems assume a rectangular room. DBA has 4 subs each on front and back walls at the 1/4 and 3/4 width and height points, while CABS has 2 subs each, at 1/2 height and 1/4 and 3/4 of the width.

 

[richard12511]

This is 100% correct. Our brains adjust remarkably quickly to speakers. Deficiencies are corrected for subconsciously and strengths become normalized.

That's why single speaker (pairs) demos or buying online are so good for selling speakers, and incredibly poor for determining differences. It's how putrid sounding speakers (think the Andrew Jones Pioneers) can get undeserved reputations. People never compare them instantly A-B with something else in real time.

It's also why people looking a graphs are putting these big Revels in the same category as the baby Genelecs. Put them side by side, crank the music and swich instantly between them and see how that works out.

What if I don’t think of the Andrew Jones Pioneers as bad speakers?

 

[PierreV]

It's also why people looking a graphs are putting these big Revels in the same category as the baby Genelecs. Put them side by side, crank the music and switch instantly between them and see how that works out.

Yeah, I think it is fair to assume that people who build excellent near-field monitors are very competent.
There has to be a reason why those guys also make 182kg far-field monitors.

 

[restorer-john]

What if I don’t think of the Andrew Jones Pioneers as bad speakers?

I've had three pairs 2x bookshelf, 1x floorstanders) and when compared (comparator) with pretty much anything else in my collection, I gave them away.

I think people in general are missing out on a lot of good speakers and some great speakers by not having easy access to B&M stores stocked with speakers and a proper comparator setup.

 

[Dmitri]

That's what we are going to do at my parents' house, probably sooner rather than later (they are in their late 80s). There's tons of room in the central atrium-style staircase/void to the second floor for a medium sized lift/elevator without going near the existing staircase.

Funny, I pitched the idea to him several years ago, as he'd stoppped carrying amplifiers and gear weighing more than 8kg up and down the stairs.

Sounds like you come from hardy stock John. I’m thinking Darwinian thinking works in your favor! Regarding your suggestion for Amirm...well I know I’m not getting any younger... And I sure would like to see more floor standers reviewed. Hmmm...
Anyone in for an Amirm elevator fund?

 

[BYRTT]

Its hard to count how many readers in this thread that look down on low end reach performance for F328Be plus Amir must be deaf and dont know how real bass should sound (some readers tell we need at least 4 times subs and reaching 16 times subs we begin probably to have good bass performance) and also some tell Amir's anechoic analyzer from Klippel company cant measure floorstanders right in low end of scale.

Have really no clue how 16 times distributed subs sound systemwise but have visited many systems that sound so overblown none bass natural that its to cry over especially because owners havent noticed, what i should know is Revel is not stupid and Klippel NFS can resolute acoustics so its to dream about, so will mean when a third party as Amir with his pro analyzer sweep F328Be low end curve to what it is then thats what Revel research prefer as target curve for a premium speaker situated inside a normal home that have floor walls and cieling, cant imagine Amir's Klippel scanner isnt right for floorstanders into low end domain and in that regard think about @hardisj measured F226Be to also perform less low end reach than manufacture brochure suggets so think readers should calm down and be jealous and happy Amir own that wonder robot machine, well Amir did say in post 1 that it could be the funny strait slope from port tuning area and up should be more rounded as for F208 but its close enough to F208 that myself will conclude its a target in that area Revel shoot for, about if Amir is bass deaf is funny because often seen he also is told to be a bass head but please look at below animation than omits a few boundarys but include floor/frontwall/sidewall/cieling and please notice floor boundary is enough to get Amir's anechoic analyze pretty close to manufacture curve, and in <100Hz area is overblown hot compared to JBL/Toole trained listener curve should be proof Amir is not bass deaf when he report there is plenty of clean bass in his listening test ..

 

[minnend]

Well, it should be capable of much greater undistorted SPL than the D&D and Kii simply due to the much greater woofer surface area and cabinet volume. I don’t know about the LX521.4 but one big advantage of the Revel is that you can actually buy it.

I appreciate your response. The undistorted SPL argument certainly makes sense. I don't know about availability since I'm not in the market for a 5-digit system, but lack of inventory certainly matters in practice. I'm in the camp that thinks subs (high quality and well-integrated) belong in a high-end system so these expensive floorstanders don't make a lot of sense to me, but it's easy enough to imagine a situation where they're the right answer.

I've heard the LX521.4, and they were astounding. That said, I have *not* heard anything else in that price range so maybe it's par for the course. So I'm really interested to hear these Revels and see how a top-notch traditional design compares.

 

[Robbo99999]

Its hard to count how many readers in this thread that look down on low end reach performance for F328Be plus Amir must be deaf and dont know how real bass should sound (some readers tell we need at least 4 times subs and reaching 16 times subs we begin probably to have good bass performance) and also some tell Amir's anechoic analyzer from Klippel company cant measure floorstanders right in low end of scale.

Have really no clue how 16 times distributed subs sound systemwise but have visited many systems that sound so overblown none bass natural that its to cry over especially because owners havent noticed, what i should know is Revel is not stupid and Klippel NFS can resolute acoustics so its to dream about, so will mean when a third party as Amir with his pro analyzer sweep F328Be low end curve to what it is then thats what Revel research prefer as target curve for a premium speaker situated inside a normal home that have floor walls and cieling, cant imagine Amir's Klippel scanner isnt right for floorstanders into low end domain and in that regard think about @hardisj measured F226Be to also perform less low end reach than manufacture brochure suggets so think readers should calm down and be jealous and happy Amir own that wonder robot machine, well Amir did say in post 1 that it could be the funny strait slope from port tuning area and up should be more rounded as for F208 but its close enough to F208 that myself will conclude its a target in that area Revel shoot for, about if Amir is bass deaf is funny because often seen he also is told to be a bass head but please look at below animation than omits a few boundarys but include floor/frontwall/sidewall/cieling and please notice floor boundary is enogh to get Amir's anechoic analyze pretty close to manufacture curve, and in <100Hz area is overblown hot compared to JBL/Toole trained listener curve should be proof Amir is not bass deaf when he report there is plenty of clean bass in his listening test ..

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That much room gain?! If I take my JBL 308p Mkii as an example which has been measured recently by Amir and compare that to my in-room measurements (one-sixth smoothing on bass) I don't really see any room gain and my speakers are about 1m from the wall (I've got my door open though, but it's just a regular door, not a barn!). Roll off of the bass is at exactly the same point, and amplitudes seem comparable.

So is there really that much gain on bass on tower speakers in a normal room?!

 

[Bear123]

That much room gain?! So is there really that much gain on bass on tower speakers in a normal room?!

Here are my Revel F36 towers in room(compare to the measurements on the F35 measured on this site):

 

[ernestcarl]

So is there really that much gain on bass on tower speakers in a normal room?!

The 308p mkII is a stand-mounted or desk mounted speaker and not a tower vertically arrayed with multiple bass drivers. It also depends on how solid and thick the boundaries are... I imagine the modelling is for solid concrete walls -- maybe apart from the ceiling(?)

 

[andreasmaaan]

That much room gain?! If I take my JBL 308p Mkii as an example which has been measured recently by Amir and compare that to my in-room measurements (one-sixth smoothing on bass) I don't really see any room gain and my speakers are about 1m from the wall (I've got my door open though, but it's just a regular door, not a barn!). Roll off of the bass is at exactly the same point, and amplitudes seem comparable.
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So is there really that much gain on bass on tower speakers in a normal room?!

Depending on the size of your room and the construction materials, there may or may not be room pressurisation gain within the audio band. With solid construction and a room <200m^3, for example, there is likely to be significant pressurisation beginning at maybe 30Hz or higher. In smaller rooms, this will begin higher in frequency. In larger rooms, or rooms with very lossy construction, there may be no pressurisation gain within the audio band at all.

As to your specific case, you have a speaker there that rolls off in the bass at approx. 36dB/octave beginning at around 50Hz. There is essentially no output below 30Hz. Unless you have a very small, solid room, it's unlikely you'll see any effects of room pressurisation gain there.

 

[ernestcarl]

As to your specific case, you have a speaker there that rolls off in the bass at approx. 36dB/octave beginning at around 50Hz. There is essentially no output below 30Hz. Unless you have a very small, solid room, it's unlikely you'll see any effects of room pressurisation gain there.

My S8 monitors have an even steeper roll-off, 10th order... luckily my sealed 12" sub in the small basement space with concrete walls here -- other than the ceiling and (thin & hollow) right side walls and door -- provides more than enough extra push down there.

Infrasound and half of the sub bass boost you see above is from room gain.