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Revel F328Be Speaker Review

Kal Rubinson

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Ah, I am jealous! We had one years ago at Madrona but the team sold it. :( I understand its filtering is different than ARCOS but otherwise should work the same. Is this something personal or publishing for stereophile? If former, would be great to see your impression of it.
I had been looking for one for 10years. I mentioned it on an audio forum, another member volunteered that he had one and was willing to part with it. Looks unused. Just luck and persistence.

It's personal. I am going to try it in my CT setup where, currently, I am using a DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4TM in its 4-sub mode. DSPeaker is not particularly forthcoming about technical details (https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-97-hegel-c53-dspeaker-anti-mode-x4-page-2) but perhaps you can get them to send you one for testing.
 

richard12511

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My understanding of the "the multiple subs in separate locations are better than one" are in respect to a stand-mount speaker with limited LF extension eg. 2-way speaker with 4-8" midwoofer.

I don't think that understanding is correct. "multiple subs in separate locations are better than one" is in respect to any and all speakers, even if they're flat to 10Hz.
 
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richard12511

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Actually, it is really easy to get right. Plop two decent subs in decent spots, and run Audysey on a $799 Denon AVR for razor flat bass response. Also, room correction on the speakers below 3-500ish Hz as required for high fidelity. Revel F36 towers plus a pair of Rythmik FV15HP..about $4k and I wouldn't downgrade to a pair of tower speakers without subs at any price.

Not arguing with you, I realize you are a strong advocate for multiple subs if high fidelity is the goal. Just saying that its not that hard to get right.
View attachment 92877

Agreed. Honestly, I would probably take F36s + 4 Rythmiks over Salon2s on their own.

Not really :p. I'd much rather have Salon2s. The F36s would probably sound better, though.
 
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tktran303

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I don't think that understanding is correct. "multiple subs in separate locations are better than one" are in respect to any and all speakers, even if they're flat to 10Hz.

I wonder where the evidence for that? Please let me know as I'd be interested in reading it.

I may have missed it in his book or other empirical data...
 

DonH56

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The other popular multi-sub application I am aware of is @andyc56 's MSO, multi-sub optimizer, and I am thinking of trying it and comparing it to SFM. Or just using MSO if SFM turns out to be a stretch. MSO is free, depends upon REW (as does SFM for the do-it-yourselfer), and Dr. Andy is available to consult.

Multiple subs properly placed allow one to minimize the impact of room modes without mucking up the main stereo image. The positions to cancel room modes are rarely the best positions for the mains with respect to stereo imaging and all that jazz. So it's room-dependent, like most things speaker'ish.
 

DonH56

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Agreed. Honestly, I would probably take F36s + 4 Rythmiks over Salon2s on their own.

And then there is the "anything worth doing is worth overdoing" approach... :)
 

andreasmaaan

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I tend to believe in points (2) and (3). I also think that the target audience for this type of speaker does not use room EQ and has no tone controls available, hence it makes sense to counteract overblown bass due to room gain.

I think that's probably true. My personal experience is that floorstanders with this kind of bass response tend to sound a bit on the lean side unless placed close to a wall or used with subs. From one perspective, this makes sense I suppose, as these are essentially speakers with little or no baffle step compensation.

Of course my subjective experience may not place me among the majority here... An alternative way to look at this would be to say that floorstanders are always in 2pi space and that their response should not be considered in isolation from the floor's boundary reinforcement. That would lead to a design methodology that called for a shelved-down bass response in floorstanders (@BYRTT demonstrated this well with graphs in an earlier post). This doesn't seem correct to me, nor does it match my experience, but I think arguments could be made for it.

The thing that has me doubting the bass here is your subjective comments about how this is the deepest bass you've heard yet, as several of the speakers so far seem to dig quite a bit deeper. A lot of those speakers, are bookshelf speakers, though. It's like the NFS is correctly measuring the bass response for bookshelf speakers, but not for tower speakers.

I haven't been keeping track of all the measurements. What other floorstanders have been measured? The only ones that come to mind are this, the F208, and that one JBL (which measured more or less as expected in the bass IIRC).

Knowing the woofers used in the F208, the bass response doesn't surprise me too much. The 8 Ohm versions in particular need large enclosures to play low, and moreover the low relatively steep crossovers tend to knock down the low-bass response an additional few dB around the impedance saddle centred on the port tuning.

The woofers used in this 328Be are more of an unknown, but assuming they share essential common attributes with their F208 cousins (which is a big assumption of course), three of them in a cabinet this size does seem to me like a lot of woofer in a relatively small enclosure volume, which (along with the low, steep XO filter) would similarly tend to lead to limited bass extension (despite the low port tuning).
 
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richard12511

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I wonder where the evidence for that? Please let me know as I'd be interested in reading it.

I may have missed it in his book or other empirical data...

It's in chapter 8 of Floyd Toole's book. The reason multiple subwoofers in multiple locations are better is because they allow you to correct room mode nulls. Room mode peaks can be brought down via EQ, but the only way to fix certain types of nulls is by moving the location of the bass source that's generating the frequencies within that null, or moving the seat. If you have really big mains that are flat down to 20hz, you can of course correct the null my moving one of the mains. The problem with that, though, is that presumably you have your mains positioned for optimal imaging. Moving the main to fix the null will likely worsen the imaging. So, if you want both optimal imaging potential, and the ability to fix room nulls, you have to have additional bass sources that you can move independently from the mains.
 

maverickronin

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You do realize that when we accept “deep enough” and “a lot of music doesn’t need” etc, this is not SOTA anymore?

Don't exaggerate.
No, if we are talking SOTA, we need 20-20.000Hz

That's not a very good definition of "SOTA". You're just declaring that 20hz is “deep enough” and that “a lot of music doesn’t need” anything lower while criticizing someone else for picking a different arbitrary point.
 

richard12511

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I think that's probably true. My personal experience is that floorstanders with this kind of bass response tend to sound a bit on the lean side unless placed close to a wall or used with subs. From one perspective, this makes sense I suppose, as these are essentially speakers with little or no baffle step compensation.

Of course my subjective experience may not place me among the majority here... An alternative way to look at this would be to say that floorstanders are always in 2pi space and that their response should not be considered in isolation from the floor's boundary reinforcement. That would lead to a design methodology that called for a shelved-down bass response in floorstanders (@BYRTT demonstrated this well with graphs in an earlier post). This doesn't seem correct to me, nor does it match my experience, but I think arguments could be made for it.



I haven't been keeping track of all the measurements. What other floorstanders have been measured? The only ones that come to mind are this, the F208, and that one JBL (which measured more or less as expected in the bass IIRC).

Knowing the woofers used in the F208, the bass response doesn't surprise me too much. The 8 Ohm versions in particular need large enclosures to play low, and moreover the low relatively steep crossovers tend to knock down the low-bass response an additional few dB around the impedance saddle centred on the port tuning.

The woofers used in this 328Be are more of an unknown, but assuming they share essential common attributes with their F208 cousins (which is a big assumption of course), three of them in a cabinet this size does seem to me like a lot of woofer in a relatively small enclosure volume, which (along with the low, steep XO filter) would similarly tend to lead to limited bass extension (despite the low port tuning).

I'll have to go back and look. I know there have been several instances where the LW extension was a lot less than the manufacturer spec, but maybe most of those were of bookshelf speakers.
 

richard12511

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And then there is the "anything worth doing is worth overdoing" approach... :)

Yeah, I was lying. I would definitely take Salon2s over F36s + 4 Rythmiks, but I'd just end up buying the 4 Rythmiks anyway. Best of both worlds :D, or worst of both worlds(if we're talking about my subsequent financial situation).
 

DonH56

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Yeah, I was lying. I would definitely take Salon2s over F36s + 4 Rythmiks, but I'd just end up buying the 4 Rythmiks anyway. Best of both worlds :D, or worst of both worlds(if we're talking about my subsequent financial situation).

"Overdoing" = 6 Salon2's + 4 Rythmik subs. And a Voice2. Finances, well, that took a few years, some super deals, a nice bonus or three, an incredible wife, and certainly would not have happened this year.
 

Beershaun

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Congratulations on your 100th review @amirm ! This site and your work has brought clarity to the haze of high fidelity audio component selection. It shows us what we get for our money, and what we don't get in many cases. And helps us understand what we are hearing (or aren't). I wish you another 100 successful speaker reviews!
 

Pearljam5000

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Is the F328Be better than Genelec 8351B?
By the way Is it the same Beryllium driver that Focal uses?
 

Beershaun

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I just noticed you haven't ever measured your Salon2s. Do you plan to measure and review them in the future?
 
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amirm

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I just noticed you haven't ever measured your Salon2s. Do you plan to measure and review them in the future?
It is not in the cards for a while due to their size and weight and being on a different floor. Come next spring with the pandemic under control, may have people over to help.
 
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