Magnepan LRS Speaker Review

[RayDunzl]

Good match.

I can appreciate the magic of incomprehesible mathematics.

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Then again, it fails by +/-10dB below or approaching the transition frequency.

 

[thewas]

Then again, it fails by +/-10dB below or approaching the transition frequency.

Which is expected as individual room modes differ from room to room, but I am positive that it could be superposed with room mode simulator results in that region to give even there a quite good match.

 

[Vuki]

i'm confused, what's the flop here? how would a quasianechoic measurement help anything? hasn't anechoic always been the gold standard measurements wise?

The flop here is that Klippel predicted in room response is completely unlike anything anyone would measure in real life with lsr. Unlike when "normal" box speaker is measured and pir response does really predicts real life in-room response.

 

[q3cpma]

RE the boxy sound -- I've always assumed it refers to those cheap loudspeakers with box colorations. Which is what you get for $650, though cheap dynamics like the Elacs have gotten a lot better in recent years.

Look at the Dynaudio LYD5 or Genelec 8030C recently reviewed here, the price of an LRS with appropriate beefy amp can get you something like this.

People that buy Magnepan speakers are into hi-fi and likely much more serious about their two-channel systems.

They're definitely not into high-fidelity, though. I wonder how many kooky audiophiles you got in their buyer base that bought them just because of the hype, wanting to be part of the "Maggie club", their unique look and finally maybe their sonic quality on very select material.

The proposition "people having some == they can't sound bad" is preposterous and you should know it.

A couple of issues there. One is that you need the output from both bass panels because they are asymmetrical (as you observed) and the acoustic dipole equalization is designed to interleave (two segments on one side, three on the other). So the bass response won't be smooth if you listen to only one speaker.

The other I think is that with one speaker, you'll miss one of the main reasons people love planar line sources, despite their limitations -- the awesome imaging.

As always, I agree that mono testing is flawed by design.

Why are measurements so poor for a design that has been celebrated for decades as one of the best sounding speakers in the world?

That's a nice opinion. To me it looks more like a vocal minority bolstered by the audiophile and mostly corrupt press also known as the "Can hear the emperor's beautifully musical trumpet" club.

The apparent answer would seem to be that the speakers are fine - the measurements are wrong.

The difference between religion and a scientific theory is that any solid evidence against the theory produces doubt in it while in a religion, the doubt always falls on the evidence.

If the LRS measurements are so misleading, what veracity should be placed on all the OTHER measurements of the "Audio Science Review" website? Again, the answer would seem to be that if the measurements in this "review" are so flawed (or else so misleading), then great caution should be applied when assessing ANY measurements from this site.

Truth hurts?

I suggest you try to read all the research behind these; of course, that's only if you're not one of the expected Magnepan hurt fanboys.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Which is expected as individual room modes differ from room to room, but I am positive that it could be superposed with room mode simulator results in that region to give even there a quite good match.

So good bit of software would take the spin results and your room dimensions to let you play with room position plus LP for best results. It really only needs to cover the lower 500 hz it would appear.

 

[Vuki]

...
They're definitely not into high-fidelity, though. I wonder how many kooky audiophiles you got in their buyer base that bought them just because of the hype, wanting to be part of the "Maggie club", their unique look and finally maybe their sonic quality on very select material.

The proposition "people having some == they can't sound bad" is preposterous and you should know it.
...


I suggest you try to read all the research behind these; of course, that's only if you're not one of the expected Magnepan hurt fanboys.

Have you ever listened to any Magnepan?

 

[q3cpma]

Have you ever listened to any Magnepan?

No. Doesn't invalidate anything I said, though; if that's the high-fidelity part that warranted that reply, I've rarely seen/read a Magnepan owner who wasn't listening to his speaker instead of music through it.

 

[pma]

The speakers with large and soft radiating area like electrostats or magnepans are extremely difficult to measure properly.

 

[edechamps]

I can appreciate the magic of incomprehesible mathematics.

The mathematics are actually very simple. The reflections curves, as well as PIR, are just averages of the underlying single-angle measurements. For example, the "Side Reflections" curve is an average of the ±40-80° curves. The Early Reflections curve is an average of the various individual reflections curves. And the PIR curve is a weighted average of 12% Listening Window, 44% Early Reflections and 44% Sound Power. The rationale behind this process is detailed in this study.

 

[thanhh]

No. Doesn't invalidate anything I said, though; if that's the high-fidelity part that warranted that reply, I've rarely seen/read a Magnepan owner who wasn't listening to his speaker instead of music through it.

You use 1 measurement of the smallest and cheapest Magnepan to generalise the whole range. Like my post above, my very old MG12/QR frequency response (no EQ) is no worse that any other speakers in the price range.

 

[q3cpma]

You use 1 measurement of the smallest and cheapest Magnepan to generalise the whole range. Like my post above, my very old MG12/QR frequency response (no EQ) is no worse that any other speakers in the price range.

Not really, as I said in my first post, I wonder how the bigger models do and how DSP with an integrated monopole subwoofer might solve some of the problems seen here. Still, the bass and vertical directivity problems simply won't dissappear in the bigger ones; the other problem I see is distorsion, especially H3 under ~180 Hz.

In your graph, I see 30 Hz less extension, and that's compared to the Kef which doesn't go low at all (advertised F6 of 38 Hz for 3 x 8" woofers...). Not even talking about distorsion.

 

[thanhh]

Well, maybe I misunderstand it but “I've rarely seen/read a Magnepan owner who wasn't listening to his speaker instead of music through it.” sounds like you meant all the Maggies are like that.
Most speakers have trade-offs, treat Maggies (smaller models) as a bookshelf speakers, use subs to compliment them. Then the bigger soundstage may persuade you. They are 1 listener speaker though. Very small sweet spot.

 

[q3cpma]

Well, maybe I misunderstand it but “I've rarely seen/read a Magnepan owner who wasn't listening to his speaker instead of music through it.” sounds like you meant all the Maggies are like that.
Most speakers have trade-offs, treat Maggies (smaller models) as a bookshelf speakers, use subs to compliment them. Then the bigger soundstage may persuade you. They are 1 listener speaker though. Very small sweet spot.

Well, I did said I wonder what's the proportion of audiophiles is in their buyer base. Honestly, can you say that these can work with genres like extreme metal? Anyway, I don't want "bigger soundstage", but only the one present in the recording; and this soundstage thing probably interacts with the genre problem.

 

[bobbooo]

Oh, all right.

View attachment 83861

Which is which?

You're still hiding the response below 240 Hz.

 

[thanhh]

Well, I did said I wonder what's the proportion of audiophiles is in their buyer base. Honestly, can you say that these can work with genres like extreme metal? Anyway, I don't want "bigger soundstage", but only the one present in the recording; and this soundstage thing probably interacts with the genre problem.

Like I said, most speakers have trade-offs. Metal wouldn’t sound great on small bookshelf speakers either.
Maybe this speaker is not for you but mocking owners of certain products is not nice, I think.
I like both of my speakers and would buy a full range Revel in the next upgrade but I think I know why plenty of people like these Maggies.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The mathematics are actually very simple. The reflections curves, as well as PIR, are just averages of the underlying single-angle measurements. For example, the "Side Reflections" curve is an average of the ±40-80° curves. The Early Reflections curve is an average of the various individual reflections curves. And the PIR curve is a weighted average of 12% Listening Window, 44% Early Reflections and 44% Sound Power. The rationale behind this process is detailed in this study.

And without access to that study it likely didn't have panel dipoles did it?

 

[MZKM]

Looking at Klippel predicted in-room response and amirm's measured one (even, if I understood it right -of a lsr elevated 5ft of the floor?), I think no one can say Klippel did a good job with this speaker.
View attachment 83869
View attachment 83870

That is at the original tweeter axis that Amir measured them, which had severely reduced treble energy.

Here is the Spin with the predicted in-room at the same vertical height as the actual in-room (single measurement):

The lower treble is a wash, but 10kHz is roughly -10dB relative to 400Hz in each.

EDIT: As shown here, we have the simulated on-axis at ~3.7ft away.

Back to the measured in-room:

So, the in-room measurement Amir posted is supported by the measurements, both have 3kHz at being -10dB relative to 400Hz; the measured in-room has the dip starting at 2kHz, but looking back at the tweeter axis Spinorama and the PIR also has a dip at 2kHz.

@amirm, how far is your listening distance from the speakers where you typically place them?

 

[MZKM]

The flop here is that Klippel predicted in room response is completely unlike anything anyone would measure in real life with lsr.

The PIR even with “box” speakers always shows less bass than what one would typically get, it’s the type of bass you’d get from having the speakers like 10ft off the front wall.

Above the bass region, it is scarily accurate for “box” speakers, and see my above post in regards to the in-room of this speaker.

 

[q3cpma]

Like I said, most speakers have trade-offs.

That's like saying that all diseases are bad, conveniently ignoring that a cold is certainly better than ebola.

 

[xarkkon]

The flop here is that Klippel predicted in room response is completely unlike anything anyone would measure in real life with lsr. Unlike when "normal" box speaker is measured and pir response does really predicts real life in-room response.

and why is it completely unlike anything anyone would measure in real life? would you happen to have seen other types of measurements that are better than what amir is showing?