Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[MZKM]

Is that the Performancerice LW with sub? I wonder whether LW should be used in the PIR, as well?

It already is, the on-axis isn’t used for PIR.

 

[Chromatischism]

I'm reading more and more articles on how folks are favoring crossing over the subs at 150Hz. I'd say, it's become prevalent in the past 5-7 years due to most folks coming to the realization that bookshelves are terrible below 100Hz, and most systems now use multiple subs. So, localization is not a problem.

I love the dispersion of a 5" mid, give it room to breathe by crossing over at 150Hz/12dB down to subs beneath the stands, etc, acting like a 3 way, and the sound improves dramatically. I agree, subs are a requirement in most systems, IMVHO.

Every time I've tried crossing higher than 100Hz, I didn't like the way it sounded.

Remember, crossovers are on a slope. If you begin at 150Hz, you will only be 24dB down at 300Hz, and 48dB down at 600Hz. That leaves a large range for your music to come through the subs...on the floor.

 

[Xyrium]

Correct, not all subs can do upper bass. My suggestion would be a pair of small 10" subs, sealed boxes, with a range that measures into 300Hz cleanly. Take the Seas L26roy if DIY. THat's for the stereo setup good down to about 40Hz cleanly, you need to add another pair of 15" for the (real) sub bass stuff if you go down below 40Hz frequently.

Slope is used based on the overall design. You cannot simply shoehorn a speaker into a situation and arbitrarily cross it over at a whim.

Edit: And, "I didn't like the way it sounded" is pretty subjective.

 

[Chromatischism]

Correct, not all subs can do upper bass. My suggestion would be a pair of small 10" subs, sealed boxes, with a range that measures into 300Hz cleanly. Take the Seas L26roy if DIY. THat's for the stereo setup good down to about 40Hz cleanly, you need to add another pair of 15" for the (real) sub bass stuff if you go down below 40Hz frequently.

Slope is used based on the overall design. You cannot simply shoehorn a speaker into a situation and arbitrarily cross it over at a whim.

Edit: And, "I didn't like the way it sounded" is pretty subjective.

It is. I don't think most people would like to hear human voices coming from the floor instead of the screen

 

[ROOSKIE]

Every time I've tried crossing higher than 100Hz, I didn't like the way it sounded.

Remember, crossovers are on a slope. If you begin at 150Hz, you will only be 24dB down at 300Hz, and 48dB down at 600Hz. That leaves a large range for your music to come through the subs...on the floor.

24db down by 300 is likely great.
I don't think there will be a problem with the floor. It is a very wide wave anyway.
A 150hrz wave is 8feet roughly.
300 is roughly 4. But really wrapping around and bouncing all over anyway.

 

[edechamps]

Would it be possible for you to list the individual components of the preference score for the R3, M106, and/or others?

Loudspeaker Explorer can show you the full calculation of the individual score components in an extreme level of detail, with full explanations and including comparisons between speakers at every step. It's in the various sections under "Olive Preference Rating". (Currently the score Loudspeaker Explorer calculates is very slightly different from @MZKM because it doesn't fix the Klippel PIR curve, but the difference in final score is typically 0.1 or less.)

 

[Chromatischism]

24db down by 300 is likely great.
I don't think there will be a problem with the floor. It is a very wide wave anyway.

It leaves the potential for you to hear 71 dB voices and other sounds from the subs if bass levels are at 95 dB. By 600 Hz, that's finally approaching a reasonable level of 47 dB, but in my experience, the system as a whole will sound cleaner if you can eliminate all of that by 300 Hz. Feel free to experiment in your own system, of course.

 

[ROOSKIE]

It is. I don't think most people would like to hear human voices coming from the floor instead of the screen

Several speaker designs have such configurations such as the LSA-20 I mentioned earlier.

 

[Putter]

With monitors that have one mid bass/bass you still have cancelations from the floor that are strong due to driver height (multiple drivers in towers help, plus some towers have bass driver near the floor)
So if you are 26" off the floor and 26" from the nearest side wall you will still get a -15/-20db null. Now what if you tower are 20" deep? You still may also get a further null.
Again a likely testament toward shallow towers or the separate midbass on the floor.
With the separate mid basses then monitors can be pulled out. Pulled out for those who find better imaging and soundstage this way.

This speaker has the woofers on the floor but man it is pretty deep.

The deep bass is due to the pentagram in back. It contributes to its 'magical' sound.

 

[youngho]

Loudspeaker Explorer can show you the full calculation of the individual score components in an extreme level of detail, with full explanations and including comparisons between speakers at every step. It's in the various sections under "Olive Preference Rating". (Currently the score Loudspeaker Explorer calculates is very slightly different from @MZKM because it doesn't fix the Klippel PIR curve, but the difference in final score is typically 0.1 or less.)

Thank you! That's super helpful. Floyd Toole's book describes Olive's PIR differently from the ANSI definition.

 

[ROOSKIE]

The deep bass is due to the pentagram in back. It contributes to its 'magical' sound.

We are discussing upper bass and lower mids. 100-600hrz. Not the deep bass that the passive radiators present.

Oh wait, yah pagan symbol behind the cat. I see....

 

[Selah Audio]

That SB acoustics tweeter is really cool. It is the one I plan to use in a DIY active set-up (someday)
A Selection of the DIY community hails it as one of the best tweeters essentially ever. (of course not all agree)
Amir you might want to have a close look at it. It is has an interesting design.

I had the baby M105 for awhile. It had a very, very smooth tweeter. Unfortunately I no longer have it. I purchased it to be used as a reference 5.25 inch driver based speaker. I liked everything about the speaker except that I liked the JBL 530 more & it therefore became my 5.25" driver reference.
The one thing about the REVEL M105 was a less detailed bass compared with the 530. I wonder if that has anything to do with the distortion characteristic? The 530 also seemed to have more depth. (maybe) It was deff more articulate in the bass.

Revel isn't using SB drivers now.

 

[Xyrium]

It is. I don't think most people would like to hear human voices coming from the floor instead of the screen

If you've bought any speakers system with cone speakers that have dispersion characteristics that fire into the floor only, then I'd say you might want to consider new speakers.

 

[tuga]

I don't have any interest in home cinema but for music these toy-sized speakers are manifestly "crippled". A waste of time.

 

[Dj7675]

I don't have any interest in home cinema but for music these toy-sized speakers are manifestly "crippled". A waste of time.

This waste of time toy speaker... sounds fantastic. Look forward to more toys like this tested. While many have room for large floor standers (I'm assuming that is what you mean by toy) many don't. Getting high quality sound in a small package is a necessity for many. I also own 4 way JBL 250ti which I think weigh around 130lb each which have 15 inch woofers in them and use the JBL b460 sub with them, so I appreciate large speakers as well. But the M106 sounds very good even without a sub. If one needed to be flat to 20, adding a sub or two would certainly do the trick. Definitely not a waste of time. In fact, I think it is a great addition that shows the potential of a good bookshelf speaker.

 

[Selah Audio]

I was tempted to buy the M106 to test against the S400, but the rear ports are stopping me. I don't think I'll be able to do an equal comparison since I run the S400's close to the wall, taking advantage of the passive radiators.

A passive radiator is a variation on a port. Placement is really more related to the tuning, and if it's low enough, a port or passive radiator is fine on the rear.

 

[dwkdnvr]

Revel isn't using SB drivers now.

I think the drivers in the Performa 3 Series (106, 206, 208) are still from SB - the characteristic ribs are likely patented. The new Performa BE series does not use the SB ceramic drivers for whatever reason, and these models don't appear to have the ribbed drivers.

 

[Chromatischism]

If you've bought any speakers system with cone speakers that have dispersion characteristics that fire into the floor only, then I'd say you might want to consider new speakers.

Subwoofers are most often placed on the floor. If yours aren't, hats off for creativity.

 

[Chromatischism]

A passive radiator is a variation on a port. Placement is really more related to the tuning, and if it's low enough, a port or passive radiator is fine on the rear.

Right, but my point is you don't have to deal with actual airflow coming out the back of the speaker.

So, how low is low enough to not worry about placing a rear-ported speaker less than 6" from the wall?

 

[Selah Audio]

Right, but my point is you don't have to deal with actual airflow coming out the back of the speaker.

So, how low is low enough to not worry about placing a rear-ported speaker less than 6" from the wall?

I would aim for a tuning 40hz or lower. I think the placement really is more of an issue in the upper bass and lower midrange which is directly impacted by how the speaker originally was voiced.