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NAD 2200 Vintage Amplifier Review

Rocky Loudboa

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Sorry, I don't have one to measure.

There is another NAD here though, the C268 which I will be testing soon.
I own the C356BEE by myself, but I‘m based in Germany and shipping cost would be too much. I bought the amp for a litte under 400 EUR last year and I think it‘s a good bargain. I hope maybe someone in the US or CAN could provide a C356BEE for measurements.
 

kukocz

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I own the C356BEE by myself, but I‘m based in Germany and shipping cost would be too much. I bought the amp for a litte under 400 EUR last year and I think it‘s a good bargain. I hope maybe someone in the US or CAN could provide a C356BEE for measurements.

The same situation here :) I bought mine for 369,99 EUR :)
Currently I'm using it as power-amp (pre is bypassed). There are many comments that in this particular model preamp is not so good but power amp stage is performing very well.
I look closely at class D amps (purifi in particular) but before I pull the trigger on it I would like to see if that indeed can be reflected in measurements.
Hopefully someone in from the US could loan it to amirm.
 

Rocky Loudboa

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The same situation here :) I bought mine for 369,99 EUR :)
Currently I'm using it as power-amp (pre is bypassed). There are many comments that in this particular model preamp is not so good but power amp stage is performing very well.
I look closely at class D amps (purifi in particular) but before I pull the trigger on it I would like to see if that indeed can be reflected in measurements.
Hopefully someone in from the US could loan it to amirm.
Funny, I‘ve the same thoughts! Can you hand over link about the concerns of the preamp stage? I also bypassed the preamp stage, but in my ears it sounded better with the preamp stage...
 

AudioSceptic

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This is a review and detailed measurements of a refurbished and upgraded NAD 2200 stereo amplifier. It was bought by a member, sent to QuirkAudio to be fully updated and then loaned to me. The work that Peter has done is exemplary. The inside looks brand new! I have repaired hundreds of amplifiers but never seen one this clean! So not only have the inside components been updated/replaced, but a lot of care has gone to cosmetically clean the unit. Peter sent me a long list of parts he has upgraded including reservoir capacitors and such. As a result, I don't know how representative of measurements are of stock units although probably not too far off. Used 2200 go for about US $530 on ebay.

The front panel is nice with an informative clipping indicator:


As you see, you can put the amp in bridge mode (which I did not test) and select whether you want soft clipping on. I left it off as you see in the picture.

During use the protection circuit came on when appropriate and nicely reset as if nothing had happened.

The NAD 2200 uses a dual voltage rail to keep power consumption and heat dissipation low when producing lower power and then upping the voltage for peak power. This is a common technique but usually applied to low baseline power level. Here, 100+ watts of power is provided using the low voltage power supply rail and it is only for power above that where the higher voltage is used. Technique worked quite well as you see later and kept the amplifier cool and happy during my testing.

Amplifier Audio Measurements
As usual, we start with our dashboard view of 1 kHz tone into 4 ohm load at 5 watts:

View attachment 68042

Not bad! Distortion is at or below -100 dB. With noise, SINAD degrades to about 93 dB putting the 2200 well above average of nearly 100 amplifiers tested to date:

View attachment 68043

Notice that the gain is quite high at 32 dB. Common range is 25 to 29 dB with the latter being a "THX" standard. The higher gain increases noise so despite that, performance is as good as seen. High gain makes it a good fit for AVRs for example that produce distorted output well below nominal 2 volts.

Frequency response has a sharp roll off which seems to indicate the output is not direct coupled (DC) as is common today:

View attachment 68044

Or maybe it is on purpose, I don't know.

Crosstalk is very good:
View attachment 68045

As is dynamic range:
View attachment 68046

It is power measurements where the magic of this amplifier comes to life so let's look at that with 4 ohm load first:

View attachment 68047

We can see a kink in distortion when we hit 200 watts as the unit sails past that to produce whopping 337 watts per channel, both driven! Per design characteristics, you can have much more during momentary peaks:

View attachment 68048

Wow, we have one kilowatt of power coming out of this amp in short duration!

Switching to 8 ohm we see similar results as 4 ohm:

View attachment 68050

Sweeping the power test at 4 ohm with different frequencies shows a well-behaved amplifier:

View attachment 68052

You do loose power in higher frequencies but that is fine since music spectrum has lower energy there anyway.

Due to the long duration of this test, the protection circuit likely backed off the high voltage rail, producing lower output levels.

EDIT: adding Lab Input Measurements
Lab Input Measurements
I was surprised that the frequency response was flat and was relieved to see later in the thread that this is due to insertion of low and high pass filters. So here is the frequency response with Lab input that doesn't have such a filter:

View attachment 68105

Response now (in green) as it should be, ruler flat to below 10 Hz, and well extending past the 40 kHz limit of this measurement.

I figured the filters may be adding some noise/distortion so re-ran the dashboard again:
View attachment 68106

Distortion doesn't change but if you look at the noise floor at 20 Hz, it is down by some 10 dB. That improves SINAD a couple of dBs, making the amplifier stand out even more!
View attachment 68107

Zoomed:

View attachment 68109

And signal to noise ratio:

View attachment 68108

Conclusions
Nice to see innovation like this from equipment that is over 30 years old! Shame on manufacturers that produce amplifiers for much less power, more distortion and higher prices these days. No, you don't get a fancy case here and sheet metal is strictly budget category. But you are not going to sit on the amp. The guts are where it matters and NAD 2200 delivers.

NOTE: the output relay on stock 2200 gets corroded and fails over time. There are videos and DIY threads on how to upgrade the relay there to fix the problem. The unit tested here has that fix. Other than that, there are not reports of many other reliability issues even though NAD products are often said to be less reliable than other brands.

Overall, I am happy to recommend the NAD 2200. I almost gave it the highest honors but given the upgraded nature of the test unit, and the fact that used amps may have issues, I avoided that. But you could have easily pushed me to give it the golfing panther.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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Amir, in your edit
"I was surprised that the frequency response was flat and was relieved to see later in the thread that this is due to insertion of low and high pass filters."
I take it you meant "...was not flat..."?
 

DSJR

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If this has been referred to before, apologies as there's a lot of pages and little time this end. the 2200 was measured in HiFi Choice (the little compilation book issue 44 in 1986) and I quote the conclusion (no idea, but I think the whole UK high end scene was kicking off big time for reviewer Martin Colloms, so no way was a cheap powerhouse ever going to be too highly recommended)

---

"Having survived the critical low level section of the listenng tests, the 2200 proved that under the real programme conditions, it was one of the biggest amplifiers ever. A bridged pair would provide 1,500W undistorted programme per channel, still impressive at 32dbW.The lab performance and build quality were both fine. At the price (£339 in 1986) it would not normally qualify for recommendation on sound quality grounds but the exceptional power output meant that this had to be worth serious consideration - Indeed, for certain applications, it may be the only sensible choice."

Sound Quality*

"The sound was described as dry and controlled, with a good level of instrumental detail and sharp, stable stereo focusing. Ambience was reproduced quite well, but far depth effects were suppressed. Tonally, the mid was slightly nasal and lean while the treble was lacking a little air and sparkle. Bass was pretty good for the class, while the amp 'drove along well,' preserving much of the dynamic interest in the programme."

---

I personally remember it as 'All blood and thunder' with a bombastic quality to it BUT, I do remember hearing one driving professional PMC MB1's and it was in its element! As for the measurements, the only thing of note at the time was full power at 20khz, the distortion was at -77.6db and IMD (19 + 20khz rated output 'aux input (!)') -87.1 and IMD 19+20khz at 0dbW, disc MM (wtf???) was -96.2db


*The mid 80's in the UK scene was when ARC, CJ and Krell, even at a 50%+ price hike over the US prices, were charming the pants off high end reviewers such as Martin Colloms and Ken Kessler and the UK high end customers, wanting something over and above their Linn-Naim systems, were lapping it all up I remember. Tech flaws were played right down in favour of the often highly coloured but entertaining sounds produced bu such amp confections. As said in these pages, create a story which becomes a legend and you're off where the high end market is concerned. That Nad didn't stand a chance, sadly...
 
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SIY

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@amirm Know what I hate? When people come back to you and demand more measurements. :D

So... any chance you still have the unit and could look at the time domain distortion residual of a 2.83V/8R sine wave? This relates to the discussion elsewhere in the forum regarding crossover distortion in AB amplifiers.
 

PeteL

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35 years. :)

Topology is completely different. The M22 is Hypex OEM NC400 Class D. The 2200 is a commutating rail through-hole dinosaur from the mid 1980s, but, as you can see, not only is it still working, it's repairable and not too bad looking for a NAD, and it still performs very well.

There's no way on earth the SMPS powered M22 will last 35 years. It's chock full of microcontrollers and SMD lead-free componentry. But, it is new and some people want that. I get it.

Again, it's a tough call. You either find a classic monster power amp from the past and throw some restoration dollars at it (not just some capacitor-jockey with a bag of parts and a plumber's soldering iron) and it will last another 35 years, or you get a shiny new modern amplifier and expect 5-10 years before total replacement. All we can hope is the tougher (!) new European regulations on repair-ability and parts will improve the situation which has been going downhill for decades.

I'd like to see young restorers down the track, still able to get parts and keeping some of these wonderful products from the past alive. I'll gladly donate all my parts and gear to some young whipper snapper when I can no longer read resistor color codes or my hand is too trembling to solder. Hopefully that is decades away...

With all respect, I believe this is slightly biased. Old or new, the first component to drift out of specs are the Electrolitics, as you know, so the new amp will probably need maintenance at the same time your restored one will. Now I know you are probably talking about the life of the product before it needs to be thrown away, unrepairable. Sure time will tell how these smps supplied amps last but there is no Intrinsync reason why it could only be 5-10 years, unless I'm missing something. Yes, it's more "fun" to exchange trough hole components than smds, but anybody could get used to it. Now, you may enlight me and I might be wrong, but we are not talking a smart phone here with bga ICs. I have Ncore based amps, and there isn't a single microcontroller in it. I'm not saying there isn't one in the M22, but why would it be "full of microcontrollers" . In the end it's just a power amp. Sure they may use one but It's not because they would use one that it's necessarily doomed to fail. I don't want to pretend I know and your point is valid but only to an extent, yes we can and we should stand against planned obsolescence, but I also don't think there is a big global conspiration to insure anything new is designed to be disposable. There are serious designers out there that want their products to last. I would not know about Nad, never opened the hood of their new amps, but I tought that was a bit of a generalisation. Again, you may be right tough, we will see sooner than later if these fails faster, I just didn't think it's a hard fact, we need to wait and see.
 

cjm2077

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I had a cousin of this amp, the NAD 2400THX, that I bought used while in college in the mid 90's. I think I paid less than $200 for it, beat the bejeezus out of it for 10 years, moved 6 or 7 times with it including twice cross country without shipping packaging, and finally sold it to a friend for about what I bought it for around the time I upgraded to a Bryston. It definitely had power to spare, and was physically sturdy. Served me well, so it's nice to see that the family was capable of good measurements.
 

infinitesymphony

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Testing an old amplifier with suspect aged components would not be realistic, and not useful to anyone contemplating purchasing one.
I don't know, I really like the reviews of vintage as-is amps and speakers we've seen here at ASR because it's a randomized sample of what you might find in the world. Consider that the unrefurbished 17-year-old NAD C320BEE tested just 3 dB away from this overhauled monster.
 

Wes

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It would be interesting to see what prices on the used market are for good vintage amps at each power output category, and how that compares with new pricing.

Assuming you avoid the Years of Capacitor Rot, and no other issues are likely.
 

carlob

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The NJM2043DD is actually a pretty good OPAMP. The LM4562 is only slightly better spec, and may actually oscillate in the NAD circuit without further decoupling and response tailoring.

I didn't touch the opamps of mine but there are plenty of discussions on diyaudio.
 

audio_tony

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Mine has had the entire OPAMP board removed so it's pure stereo only (no bridged mono).

It's also had the minimum of maintenance over the 16 years or so that I've owned it - perhaps I should measure it and post the results here...

IIRC I've replaced the input caps and the caps in the feedback network - the rest are as it came out of the factory.
 
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amirm

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Amir, in your edit
"I was surprised that the frequency response was flat and was relieved to see later in the thread that this is due to insertion of low and high pass filters."
I take it you meant "...was not flat..."?
Yes, corrected in the review.
 
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amirm

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@amirm Know what I hate? When people come back to you and demand more measurements. :D

So... any chance you still have the unit and could look at the time domain distortion residual of a 2.83V/8R sine wave? This relates to the discussion elsewhere in the forum regarding crossover distortion in AB amplifiers.
Hehe. :) Since it is for good cause, here you go:

NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier residual noise audio measurements.png


I also tested at higher bandwidths and it just increased the noise level. There is no correlated crosstalk distortion that I can see at zero crossing.
 
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