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Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

mansr

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No. Extraordinary claims made with no evidence (e.g., properly controlled listening tests) are absolutely worthless (worse than worthless, really, since they will hook the gullible) and can be dismissed out of hand. Come back with evidence, and that's a different story. This, of course, never seems to happen, just more foot-stamping, handwaving, and the usual tired assortment of logical fallacies.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
 

SIY

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the science truth of yesterday may not be true today
Do you work for a fortune cookie company?

Science works off evidence. No evidence, and you're just one more crank.
 

1roger

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...should be encouraged to learn how to do proper controlled subjective testing so they don't continue to buy into fantasy world stuff, but can learn enough about the science so casually dismissed by those who are most exposed by it.

well last time I checked.. being open minded is more productive in science then a rigid mindset. imagine testing techniques 200 years from now
 

SIY

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well last time I checked.. being open minded is more productive in science then a rigid mindset. imagine testing techniques 200 years from now

It's gems like this which make me lean toward "dishonest." Not that I would know anything about science, of course.:cool:
 

Julf

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the science truth of yesterday may not be true today

Ah, a Truther... :)

How do you think scientific truth is established?
 

VintageFlanker

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the science truth of yesterday may not be true today
well last time I checked.. being open minded is more productive in science then a rigid mindset. imagine testing techniques 200 years from now
Hi @1roger, "silly mindset" reporting for duty!;)

Your argument would may work if we were talking about some science we just explored and don't know much about...

However, I'm afraid there's not much less to discover in digital/analogue converters. If you claim there's something left we still don't know how to measure in there... Then, tell me: how manufacturers are designing their products exactly? Magic, soul, prayers, luck? How they would design electronics with yet to be discovered basics? "Things", that hopefully they would put in their designs by accident?...o_O

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me...
 

1roger

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Ah, a Truther... :)

How do you think scientific truth is established?

by evidence^^ ..and most of the time the `evidence` at hand happen to be incorrect ot misused in some manner. science.... spend the vast majority of its time being wrong. until the people working with the problem get it right. that is what most people don`t get
 

Julf

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how did that statement contradict what I said^^

Unverified and uncontrolled subjective perception is not evidence.
 

1roger

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Hi @1roger, "silly mindset" reporting for duty!;)

Your argument would may work if we were talking about some science we just explored and don't know much about...

However, I'm afraid there's not much less to discover in digital/analogue converters. If you claim there's something left we still don't know how to measure in there... Then, tell me: how manufacturers are designing their products exactly? Magic, soul, prayers, luck? How they would design electronics with yet to be discovered basics? "Things", that hopefully they would put in their designs by accident?...o_O

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me...


finally a sensible post. you are probably correct. by unless the enthusiast `experts` on here happen to work on dac`s or whatever hifi equipment for a living. well lets say I simply don`t take their word for gospel. nor should anyone else
 

Julf

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finally a sensible post. you are probably correct. by unless the enthusiast `experts` on here happen to work on dac`s or whatever hifi equipment for a living. well lets say I simply don`t take their word for gospel. nor should anyone else

I guess 35+ years of digital signal processing (along with audio) doesn't count.
 

Julf

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by evidence^^ ..and most of the time the `evidence` at hand happen to be incorrect ot misused in some manner. science.... spend the vast majority of its time being wrong. until the people working with the problem get it right. that is what most people don`t get

No, science spends the vast majority of its time being mostly right, and refining the edges of knowledge. Audio DACs are nowhere near that edge - we mostly figured them out by the 1980s.
 

1roger

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Unverified and uncontrolled subjective perception is not evidence.

people should seperate between stating something as an `outright lie` and `not proven` people who hear sonically differences doesn`t claim to have evidence for it
 

Julf

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people should seperate between stating something as an `outright lie` and `not proven` people who hear sonically differences doesn`t claim to have evidence for it

My usual response is not to call it a lie, just respond with "your subjective, unverified perception is noted, but useless to us". We often shorten that to "uh-huh" here.
 

Julf

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you are joking right?

Not at all. As an example, Newton's theory of gravitation wasn't wrong, it just doesn't apply in some special circumstances.
 

BDWoody

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people who hear sonically differences doesn`t claim to have evidence for it

They use their ears as the only evidence they need, or should need...for anyone...ever. Oh...and the ears of the guy who makes money when you buy it from him, or from his review...you believe him more than the AP analyzer too I suppose.
 
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