Kali Audio IN-8 Studio Monitor Review

[Jaxx1138]

@Jaxx1138 I think the issue here is that the premise of your question may be a bit misguided or the question itself has not been fleshed out fully.

You asked: "No, I am interested in your test configuration not Woflgang Klippels test system." and "Do you have any pictures of your test set-up?"

I think what is being claimed here is that the Klippel NFS' measurement output is akin to an fully anechoic chamber. The test setup is the NFS system itself. There may be some minimum room dimension guideline published by Klippel. The claim then is that as long as the setup requirements are followed, it doesnt much matter whether the system is in Amir's garage or yours. The results are expected to be the same.

Amir has also provided validation data for two (may be more but two that I know of) loudspeakers measured with his NFS compared with other 3rd party measurement data.

Accepted and agreed

 

[Xulonn]

I apologize for my part in any misunderstanding. But I find the derogatory comments to be useless.

@amirm made it very clear that he worked with Klippel, and installed and used the system according to their openly (I believe) published and available instructions and guidelines. Therefore you, as an audio professional who claims to adhere to established standards and procedures, could have examined those documents and asked questions about specific details, rather than demanding that @amirm detail his process for setting up the system and performing the tests.

As other have stated (several times), there has been preliminary confirmation of the accuracy of Amir's testing so far, based on the positive correlation of Amir's results with test results from other organization. Based on that information, I am curious as to why you did not join in with others who saw this as an anomaly that should be verified - or challenged - by the testing another example of the subject loudspeaker.

You've gotten into a defensive position, but there is overall, a fair and decent group of professional and amateurs who participate here at ASR. So perhaps you might back off for now, take some time to study the earlier discussions here - and the Klippel documents - and wait for the test to be repeated with another unit. We most certainly will continue the discussion from there.

 

[stunta]

Can we all just take a deep breath and wait till Amir tests a golden sample from Kali? Far too much mudslinging for this science forum.

 

[Xulonn]

Can we all just take a deep breath and wait till Amir tests a golden sample from Kali? Far too much mudslinging for this science forum.

¡Buena idea!

 

[LeftCoastTim]

So both the this thread and the KH80 thread has many doubters of the measurements because the data shows sub par performance compared to the manufacturer’s claimed performance.

I would think that since no one has been validating manufacturers claims forever, I won’t be surprised at all if many of them are taking short cuts.

It’s like emissions tests: if no one is double checking, it saves money to cheat. Capitalism works well only when there is enough openly available information.

 

[Jaxx1138]

@amirm made it very clear that he worked with Klippel, and installed and used the system according to their openly (I believe) published and available instructions and guidelines. Therefore you, as an audio professional who claims to adhere to established standards and procedures, could have examined those documents and asked questions about specific details, rather than demanding that @amirm detail his process for setting up the system and performing the tests.

As other have stated (several times), there has been preliminary confirmation of the accuracy of Amir's testing so far, based on the positive correlation of Amir's results with test results from other organization. Based on that information, I am curious as to why you did not join in with others who saw this as an anomaly that should be verified - or challenged - by the testing another example of the subject loudspeaker.

@amirm made it very clear that he worked with Klippel, and installed and used the system according to their openly (I believe) published and available instructions and guidelines. Therefore you, as an audio professional who claims to adhere to established standards and procedures, could have examined those documents and asked questions about specific details, rather than demanding that @amirm detail his process for setting up the system and performing the tests.

As other have stated (several times), there has been preliminary confirmation of the accuracy of Amir's testing so far, based on the positive correlation of Amir's results with test results from other organization. Based on that information, I am curious as to why you did not join in with others who saw this as an anomaly that should be verified - or challenged - by the testing another example of the subject loudspeaker.

 

[Jaxx1138]

@amirm made it very clear that he worked with Klippel, and installed and used the system according to their openly (I believe) published and available instructions and guidelines. Therefore you, as an audio professional who claims to adhere to established standards and procedures, could have examined those documents and asked questions about specific details, rather than demanding that @amirm detail his process for setting up the system and performing the tests.

As other have stated (several times), there has been preliminary confirmation of the accuracy of Amir's testing so far, based on the positive correlation of Amir's results with test results from other organization. Based on that information, I am curious as to why you did not join in with others who saw this as an anomaly that should be verified - or challenged - by the testing another example of the subject loudspeaker.

You've gotten into a defensive position, but there is overall, a fair and decent group of professional and amateurs who participate here at ASR. So perhaps you might back off for now, take some time to study the earlier discussions here - and the Klippel documents - and wait for the test to be repeated with another unit. We most certainly will continue the discussion from there.

"rather than demanding that @amirm detail his proces"
This is ridiculous. I made no demands. I asked questions. Again, I came in ignorant of the forum. My mistake, I apologize. But please do not intentionally misrepresent my statements and thusly misrepresent me. You are personally accusing me of things that never occurred. I find this offensive. This is Amir's forum. But there is no need to make false claims against me.

 

[Jaxx1138]

¡Buena idea!

View attachment 47424

Just like a cult

 

[Jmudrick]

@amirm made it very clear that he worked with Klippel, and installed and used the system according to their openly (I believe) published and available instructions and guidelines. Therefore you, as an audio professional who claims to adhere to established standards and procedures, could have examined those documents and asked questions about specific details, rather than demanding that @amirm detail his process for setting up the system and performing the tests.

As other have stated (several times), there has been preliminary confirmation of the accuracy of Amir's testing so far, based on the positive correlation of Amir's results with test results from other organization. Based on that information, I am curious as to why you did not join in with others who saw this as an anomaly that should be verified - or challenged - by the testing another example of the subject loudspeaker.

Come on, enough. John specifically said "The Kali in this case would appear to either be broken or the settings (dip switches) are set inappropriately for this test. Something here does dot seem correct especially if you look at many of the reviews on the IN8.". Cut the guy a little slack.

 

[BYRTT]

In KH 80, setting the proper axis will slightly reduce the rising treble and the slight dip at the crossover frequency will even out. You can bet money on it. I don’t per se care, but it’s just puzzling that measurements for KH 80 were not nailed. Like using the mic’s calibration file, etc. Especially on a forum where every last bit is scrutinized. These are some of the best measuring and documented speakers in the world. There should be no inconsistencies. This should have been a benchmark review.

Debate is fine but will point out it looks we should relax on that microphone because its precision gear and probably why amirm had omit it in first place, it will get piece in mind and less noise but look below its not bad out of box and probably not cheap ...

Blue insert is manufactures pdf sheet traced into REW as the blue graph and grey insert is calibration numbers amirm shared and outputs the black graph:

For low end knee datasheet tell 3,5Hz reach that is the blue graph verse a standard UMIK-1 as grey graph:

 

[jhaider]

So both the this thread and the KH80 thread has many doubters of the measurements because the data shows sub par performance compared to the manufacturer’s claimed performance.

I would think that since no one has been validating manufacturers claims forever, I won’t be surprised at all if many of them are taking short cuts.

KH 80 has been "validated," notably by a German professor of acoustics with access to an anechoic chamber and expensive software, as well as years of experience measuring home and professional loudspeakers. That noted, Amir's KH 80 data is plausible provided (a) you understand that he took an incorrect 0º reference point and (b) assume the measured bass shelf results from input levels triggering some sort of software manipulation installed to protect the small woofer.

Here, it seems the surprise at the results comes because of the goodwill Charles Sprinkle has created by virtue of his waveguide and systems design work at Harman, as well as measurements of his original Kali speaker. "He doesn't have access to Harman's toys any longer" (paraphrase) seems more than a little facile and demeaning as a rationale for these measurements. Both review threads, and the measurement project generally, would benefit considerably from fewer gratuitous swipes. That noted, production consistency matters as much as, or more than, anything else in loudspeakers.

 

[TLEDDY]

¡Buena idea!

View attachment 47424

Hmmm... using the quotation from “ Mars Attacks” is a bit of a malaprop, considering the immediate consequence.

 

[Xulonn]

What you are doing is not "audio science" but "audio consensus". I simply wanted to know about Amirs test set-up. That is a reasonable question. It is not a challenge. It is simply a question. If you are treating people in this group in such a manner, then it is simply a cult like adherence to a guru and not the physics of acoustics and electronics. If asking questions is considered inappropriate in this forum then you are not in search of better sound or science. You are just am exclusive club that belittles all those that attempt to have any conversation with you about the process. I was simply curious.

These are the types of comments by which new contributor that invite adversarial discussions. I do not post from a malicious perspective, but rather react sometimes to inflammatory comments by newbies here, regardless of their resume in audio engineering and science.

I have never had such reactions here to the comments of Bruno Putzeys. Floyd Toole, Alan March, Amir, and most other audio professionals here at ASR. But a few newbies have arrived and provoked adversarial retorts from me. It's usually the tone of the communication, and not necessarily the hard facts of the discussion that trigger negative responses.

Over many decades of interacting with hundreds of scientists and engineers as both a research technician, aerospace sales engineer, and scientific software salesman and tech support specialist, I should take time to remember that effective and friendly communication styles are not requirements for expertise in technical fields. I have interacted with a number of brilliant scientists and engineers whose PR and communication skills were not very good. When I recognise that someone has good information, but poor communication skills, I should back off sometimes rather then engage. I apologize for being a bit harsh with my reactions and responses this evening.

 

[Xulonn]

Just like a cult

How is a book written by two MIT computer scientists about applying science to solve global social problems a cult?

 

[Xulonn]

Hmmm... using the quotation from “ Mars Attacks” is a bit of a malaprop, considering the immediate consequence.

You're confused. I know nothing about a quote from the movie "Mars Attacks" - I just showed the cover of a very real and serious book about trying to solve global social problems based on science - and although it is a common statement, I thought it was applicable to this discussion.

Then again, if your comment was intended as snark,

 

[Jaxx1138]

These are the types of comments by which new contributor that invite adversarial discussions. I do not post from a malicious perspective, but rather react sometimes to inflammatory comments by newbies here, regardless of their resume in audio engineering and science.

I have never had such reactions here to the comments of Bruno Putzeys. Floyd Toole, Alan March, Amir, and most other audio professionals here at ASR. But a few newbies have arrived and provoked adversarial retorts from me. It's usually the tone of the communication, and not necessarily the hard facts of the discussion that trigger negative responses.

Over many decades of interacting with hundreds of scientists and engineers as both a research technician, aerospace sales engineer, and scientific software salesman and tech support specialist, I should take time to remember that effective and friendly communication styles are not requirements for expertise in technical fields. I have interacted with a number of brilliant scientists and engineers whose PR and communication skills were not very good. When I recognise that someone has good information, but poor communication skills, I should back off sometimes rather then engage. I apologize for being a bit harsh with my reactions and responses this evening.

Enjoy your community. I wish you well.

 

[TLEDDY]

You're confused. I know nothing about a quote from the movie "Mars Attacks" - I just showed the cover of a very real and serious book about trying to solve global social problems based on science - and although it is a common statement, I thought it was applicable to this discussion.

Then again, if your comment was intended as snark,

Sorry you mistook my humor. I am unaware of the book mentioned. Please take the time to watch the film, an insane farce!

Has Anyone else seen the film?

 

[amirm]

Enjoy your community. I wish you well.

So no measurements of IN-8 from you after all this?

FYI, since I did not hear back from Kali, I purchased an IN-8 today from Amazon. Should be here this coming week.

 

[Thomas savage]

If we are a cult I should at least be getting my underpants ironed for me..

I mean whats the point otherwise!

 

[Sancus]

FYI, since I did not hear back from Kali, I purchased an IN-8 today from Amazon. Should be here this coming week.

I am quite disappointed that Kali didn't get back to you. They don't seem to have any difficulty sending pairs of them to every random 20-50K subscriber count YouTuber out there. Not a good look, imo.

E: Looks like they wanted to investigate and are following up, so I retract this criticism, and appreciate the effort from Kali.