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Vintage Speakers Worth Owning Today?
- Thread starter watchnerd
- Start date
I’m adding that spare Be tweeter to my audiophile pickers’ list to stick in my TEU.
I echo the previous NS1000M mentions. Unlike @Frank Dernie I’ve got my pair in the lounge, not the bedroom. Mind boggling!
KEF Reference Model series from the 90s are definitely worth owning if you have the space and IMHO one of if not the best vintage speaker and bang for buck.
They range in size from the smallest (29kg/57lb) floorstander to the largest 49kg (108lb) monster. Each one has a large bass woofer in a cavity coupled enclosure inside the speaker. They're also front ported so they can be pushed closer to the wall. They go very loud and very deep. The smallest Model One has a FR of 55Hz to 20kHz +/-3db and the largest Model Four goes down to 35Hz +/-3db with its dual 10" bass woofers inside the speaker.
Even the KEF Blades don't go as low or as loud as the flagship Model Four and they also measure very well indeed:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-series-model-four-loudspeaker-measurements
Prices range from £200 for the Model One and the Model Four goes for circa £1500.
Downsides are that they're huge. The tweeters are ferro fluid cooled so will need restoration at some point (there are specialists around who can do this for you). They also have the WAF of a coffin.
More info and specs:
https://www.shop.us.kef.com/explore-kef/kef-museum/1990s/reference-series-models-one-two-three-four
They range in size from the smallest (29kg/57lb) floorstander to the largest 49kg (108lb) monster. Each one has a large bass woofer in a cavity coupled enclosure inside the speaker. They're also front ported so they can be pushed closer to the wall. They go very loud and very deep. The smallest Model One has a FR of 55Hz to 20kHz +/-3db and the largest Model Four goes down to 35Hz +/-3db with its dual 10" bass woofers inside the speaker.
Even the KEF Blades don't go as low or as loud as the flagship Model Four and they also measure very well indeed:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-series-model-four-loudspeaker-measurements
Prices range from £200 for the Model One and the Model Four goes for circa £1500.
Downsides are that they're huge. The tweeters are ferro fluid cooled so will need restoration at some point (there are specialists around who can do this for you). They also have the WAF of a coffin.
More info and specs:
https://www.shop.us.kef.com/explore-kef/kef-museum/1990s/reference-series-models-one-two-three-four
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2019
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I second the praise for old Thiels and Dunlavy.
I'd throw both Quads in there - 57, 63. (Stacked 57s are still something to behold).
I'm also fond of the old Spendor speakers.
I'd throw both Quads in there - 57, 63. (Stacked 57s are still something to behold).
I'm also fond of the old Spendor speakers.
Second the vintage KEF recommendation - not the prettiest speakers (IMO) by today's standards but the matched veneer cabinets, deep bass, excellent mid range and imaging put these among the best speakers I've heard.
Bought a used pair of KEF 104/2 on Craigslist and did a full restoration - stripped and refinished cabinets to the best of my abilities, new ferrofluid in tweeters, replaced foam donuts, and finally re-capped the crossovers. All worth the effort except perhaps the crossover work since I didn't see a significant change in the freq. response before and after, and each crossover has 16 caps.
Bought a used pair of KEF 104/2 on Craigslist and did a full restoration - stripped and refinished cabinets to the best of my abilities, new ferrofluid in tweeters, replaced foam donuts, and finally re-capped the crossovers. All worth the effort except perhaps the crossover work since I didn't see a significant change in the freq. response before and after, and each crossover has 16 caps.
Very nice, did you document the refurb anywhere?
Incidentally whilst not the prettiest speaker they do seem to fit-in very well in Patrick Bateman's stylish apartment...
Hugo9000
Addicted to Fun and Learning
That's KEF's Reference 105/3 in American Psycho, by the way.
OP
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #69
So to play devil's advocate....
Aren't old Thiels and Dunlavys similarly, conceptually, to modern, thinner profile giant towers with multiple drivers?
I'm sure they're great value for money compared to the modern version, but to me they don't seem like a completely different animal like a 1970s wide cabinet design (which is barely made at all today).
Hugo9000
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Harman/Kardon for the silver-faced gear. Don't know about the CD player.
I think it's Sansui components in the book, and Duntech speakers.
Thanks! I was posting on audiokarma since there's a strong vintage speaker community there that was helpful during the restoration. I also took pictures and have been considering putting together a longer post since many of the original ones have broken links, missing pictures, etc.
Here are links to posts about initial restoration - woofers, cabinets, and tweeters:
- Cabinet restoration: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/refinishing-kef-104-2-cabinets.825401/
- Diagnosing a tweeter I accidentally punctured and tried to fix: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/damaged-kef-104-2-tweeter.829874/
I still own a pair of 104/2 that I bought new in 1988! A few dings, but they've held up pretty well. Had to re-foam the woofers recently, but I have not taken on the crossovers.
I've owned probably over 50 pairs of vintage speakers in just the last 6-7 years. I have 10 pairs at home now. It's a sickness, but a fun one. It's ready to get carried away as once you know what to look for you'll find amazing deals. Especially on stuff that needs work.
Understand, they will need work. Learn to refoam speakers, and replace capacitors at the minimum. Dead tweeters are the worst. You'll either wait months or years waiting for an original replacement to show up on eBay. Or you experiment with various replacement voice coils from China until you find one that doesn't obviously sound broken.
Understand, they will need work. Learn to refoam speakers, and replace capacitors at the minimum. Dead tweeters are the worst. You'll either wait months or years waiting for an original replacement to show up on eBay. Or you experiment with various replacement voice coils from China until you find one that doesn't obviously sound broken.
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- Sep 4, 2019
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My list of vintage speakers I would own:
1) Kef 104/2 (with Cube),
2) IMF Reference,
3) Snell C/V.
Thinking about it, my Magnepan 3.5s are about 20 years old (but rebuilt last year), maybe those are considered vintage. Crap, thinking about it more, I may be soon be vintage.
1) Kef 104/2 (with Cube),
2) IMF Reference,
3) Snell C/V.
Thinking about it, my Magnepan 3.5s are about 20 years old (but rebuilt last year), maybe those are considered vintage. Crap, thinking about it more, I may be soon be vintage.
I'll put a shout out for ADS speakers. At least the classic "L" lines. I've had a bunch of these, with (so far) my all around favorite being the L710 which is a largish bookshelf/standmount. Three way, with dual 7" woofer, the 2" sticky dome mid, and 3/4" dome tweeter. They are right on the edge where they benefit a lot from a sub. Other models I've liked are L1290 and L990. I like less the two way models, though I have a pair of L400 mentioned above, which when paired with a sub and some hi quality parametric EQ can sound phenomenal. I think the two ways with 8" woofers have a harder time crossing over, and can sound distorted around crossover point.
A major caveat, all the ADS tweeters (and the 1.5" midrange) are ferrofluid cooled, and sound harsh unless rebuilt. There's a tech in AZ (Richard So) who worked at ADS who has original driver parts and can rebuild many of these drivers back to factory spec, and sound is significantly improved, including the woofers. I don't know if this is generally true of old drivers or not. But if you find some in good shape, they can still sound good as is.
They made a lot of models, and while most of them sound good, I have my favorites.
On systems where I can, I run with a high quality parametric EQ, and this can help a lot, as they can have annoying resonances. When properly EQ'd they smoke most modern speakers at a comparable level IMO.
Edit, while basic tone controls, or even graphic EQ can help, a fully parametric EQ will get you a lot farther if you are comfortable with using these...it allows you to make notches of various Q and depth at any frequency, along with broader tone adjustments...I use a DSP plugin running on a Mac which has a very high quality linear phase setting, so it's very transparent and doesn't introduce more distortion, the one I like best for this is made by Fab Filter, these are marketed as pro audio plugins, so you need some kind of DSP host. But really any fully parametric EQ can do wonders on vintage speakers, which have their virtues but which often have lumpy frequency response. That's one area where modern speakers have improved dramatically, much more consistent FR. However, I find modern speakers deficient in other ways, generalizing very broadly.
A major caveat, all the ADS tweeters (and the 1.5" midrange) are ferrofluid cooled, and sound harsh unless rebuilt. There's a tech in AZ (Richard So) who worked at ADS who has original driver parts and can rebuild many of these drivers back to factory spec, and sound is significantly improved, including the woofers. I don't know if this is generally true of old drivers or not. But if you find some in good shape, they can still sound good as is.
They made a lot of models, and while most of them sound good, I have my favorites.
On systems where I can, I run with a high quality parametric EQ, and this can help a lot, as they can have annoying resonances. When properly EQ'd they smoke most modern speakers at a comparable level IMO.
Edit, while basic tone controls, or even graphic EQ can help, a fully parametric EQ will get you a lot farther if you are comfortable with using these...it allows you to make notches of various Q and depth at any frequency, along with broader tone adjustments...I use a DSP plugin running on a Mac which has a very high quality linear phase setting, so it's very transparent and doesn't introduce more distortion, the one I like best for this is made by Fab Filter, these are marketed as pro audio plugins, so you need some kind of DSP host. But really any fully parametric EQ can do wonders on vintage speakers, which have their virtues but which often have lumpy frequency response. That's one area where modern speakers have improved dramatically, much more consistent FR. However, I find modern speakers deficient in other ways, generalizing very broadly.
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jbl 43xx and 44xx series speakers are all a pretty safe bet. lot of them being sold have already had their surrounds redone, or even sold with external crossovers. i think altec's and tannoy's are good too depending on the variant.
I've owned the ADS L710 as well, I agree it's very nice all around. I hated the dinky binding posts though, and the thick rear baffle and thin binding posts made it more difficult than it needed to be to install modern large binding posts. Also, the single electrolytic cap on the crossover depending on the revision is either 90uf or 100uf. The 90uf is difficult and expensive to find. These are also difficult up refoam, feels like voice coil gap is much smaller than most. Still these were really nice if you placed them right, and there's the last issue, they need to be near a wall, floor, and slightly tilted to get the best bass response. The original stands are designed to do just that. But they're extremely rare, and often cost as much as the speakers. I still miss my pair sometimes.
Any speaker from the Klipsch Heritage lineup.
