@MattHooper I believe one of the goals here in ASR is to defeat psychological illusions and expose an empirical reality in the audio field.
A goal I whole heartedly support!
I 100% believe that those people who buys speakers like the MBL 101E are completely convinced that they sound better and that's why they bought them.
Right. But your claim seemed to be that the motivation was not about getting the sound the person wanted, but rather some OTHER factor like "feeling good about themselves."
But my main thesis, and I suppose other people here will support that, is that those speakers doesn't sound better because of any intrinsic objective property of their own, but because of the expectation by their owner that they will sound better.
Then I suggest that is a poor thesis. Or at least poorly formed.
What do you mean by "sound better?" What's your criteria?
The MBL speakers being omnis have a particular sonic characteristic of very open, boxless, detailed and spacious imaging/soundstaging.
If someone is looking for that type of sound, who are you to say it doesn't "sound better" than a speaker YOU like? You could appeal to ways that, for instance, it measures differently than a speaker you like, but if it produces a sound of the type someone is looking for, then it is "better" for that person's taste and criteria.
He believes the marketing statements and raving reviews enough to make him convinced that he hears an actual improvement in sound quality over other speakers (or more improvement than there is actually there).
But since speakers do sound different, and if the presentation of the MBLs is what someone is looking for, then it DOES "sound better" from that person's criteria. I don't see any reason to just grant your premise that the MBLs won't "sound better" as it seems based on some as-yet-unargued for value scheme or criteria (and which you will also have to argue for).
And the same thing goes for cables and amps and dacs and file formats etc.[
Not quite the same as there may not be sonic differences between most DACs and competently designed cables, so that's another ball of wax. But different speaker designs do sound different, and hence someone's personal preferences plausibly come in to play.
If you buy an expensive sports car should I be telling you that's a waste of money beccause you can get from A to B cheaper? Or...do we allow that people have different tastes, goals, which can make their decisions quite rational in fulfilling those desires?
So in that way, the expansive speakers make their owner believe he has achieved a superior sound quality, and thus make him feel better about himself.
I don't follow. How does it follow that someone buying A expensive audio gear makes it about "feeling better about himself" than someone buying "B" expensive audio gear.
Many on this forum have bought and own audio gear that is VERY EXPENSIVE and looks extravegant from a non-audiophile's perspective. Do you think everyone's motivation is "to feel better about himself?" If yes, then I don't see the particular point you'd be making about someone buying on expensive item over another. In other words, no need to pick on someone buying a really expensive set of speakers in particular.
But, if it isn't everyone's motivation to "feel good about himself" in making an audio purchase, I don't see how you actually have grounds to make the exception you want to make for a more expensive speaker purchase.
(I just spent the most money I've ever put out for a pair of speakers. They are by any normal joe's viewpoint, extravagent. Did I do it to "make me feel better about myself?" Sorry, I don't recognize that motivation. I wanted a particular aesthetic and especially the particular sound of this speaker which really pushed my buttons. I don't recognize feeling "better about myself" before or after the purchase. Unless it's just that I'm quite happy with my purchase. But if THAT is what you are talking about...again...I don't see any point in your selecting out that for someone buying even more expensive gear.)
It's the arrogant belittling of people who are not fooled by those marketing ploys into believing that they need 1,000$ speaker cables to enjoy their hi-fi system – that's what upsets me. And also the dishonesty that lies in the core of a lot of manufacturers that is robbing people of their money on the baseless promise of a better musical experience. Those companies aren't selling audio gear, they are selling expansive placebos for people who don't need them.
Sure. Agreed. But that didn't seem to be your point. I was only arguing against the claim about the psychology of someone buying really expensive speakers (e.g. $100,000) being based on "how it makes them feel about themselves" as if the main motivation were not in fact "chasing better sound and buying the speakers on those grounds." As I suggest: most audiophiles buy for similar reasons: they like audio gear, and look to have systems with (to them) great sound. And their spending scales with their income.