KEF LS50 & LS50W - Why the huge price difference

[Julf]

Now we know that we are much more sensitive than we thought a few years ago.

Any evidence to support that claim?

 

[Krunok]

Any evidence to support that claim?

Please don't. Of course he doesn't have any evidence but he will compeltely spam the thread if you enter in any discussion with him.

 

[Julf]

Please don't. Of course he doesn't have any evidence but he will compeltely spam the thread if you enter in any discussion with him.

I think it is safe - I am pretty sure he has blocked/ignored me.

 

[Krunok]

I think it is safe - I am pretty sure he has blocked/ignored me.

No point in addressing him if that is the case.

 

[Julf]

No point in addressing him if that is the case.

True - just couldn't help myself.

 

[Krunok]

True - just couldn't help myself.

Grab a beer and light a joint - luckilly you can find both of good quality easilly in your hometown.

 

[Julf]

Grab a beer and light a joint - luckilly you can find both of good quality easilly in your hometown.

Actually finding a *light* joint might be a challenge.

 

[DNM]

I had the passives powered by a Benchmark AHB2 integrated with subs using a MiniDSP SHD, a nice combination. Reading all the hype, I was curious about the actives so purchased a pair and ran them alongside the passives for a while. IMO, the actives were significantly better than the passive/AHB2 combo in the context of my system where they're high passed at 100hz.

I suspect the passive crossovers versus digital active time aligned crossover accounts for the biggest difference between them. Perhaps the absence of the exaggerated treble boost of the passives at 1.5khz might make a small difference, though the anechoic measured boost evens out in-room, mid field, off axis.

Except for having the 'Phase Correction' turned on, I don't use the on-board DSP, although for people running them full range, the Wall/Desk modes and Bass extension is quite effective and will certainly provide owners with better positional flexibility versus the passives. The Bluetooth streaming is useful when the kids want to use them without having to stream via the SHD; just turn them on, press Bluetooth button and they can use them full range without subs. The in-built bass management for sub integration is rudimentary with no delays or choice of filters but its better than conventional methods for a single sub.

I'm sure perceived value relative to the passives will differ from person to person depending on use and priorities. For me the priority was sound quality so switching was a no brainer. Considering they're much cheaper than the passive/AHB2 combo I thought they were a bargain.

 

[Krunok]

I had the passives powered by a Benchmark AHB2 integrated with subs using a MiniDSP SHD, a nice combination. Reading all the hype, I was curious about the actives so purchased a pair and ran them alongside the passives for a while. IMO, the actives were significantly better than the passive/AHB2 combo in the context of my system where they're high passed at 100hz.

I suspect the passive crossovers versus digital active time aligned crossover accounts for the biggest difference between them. Perhaps the absence of the exaggerated treble boost of the passives at 1.5khz might make a small difference, though the anechoic measured boost evens out in-room, mid field, off axis.

Except for having the 'Phase Correction' turned on, I don't use the on-board DSP, although for people running them full range, the Wall/Desk modes and Bass extension is quite effective and will certainly provide owners with better positional flexibility versus the passives. The Bluetooth streaming is useful when the kids want to use them without having to stream via the SHD; just turn them on, press Bluetooth button and they can use them full range without subs. The in-built bass management for sub integration is rudimentary with no delays or choice of filters but its better than conventional methods for a single sub.

I'm sure perceived value relative to the passives will differ from person to person depending on use and priorities. For me the priority was sound quality so switching was a no brainer. Considering they're much cheaper than the passive/AHB2 combo I thought they were a bargain.

Are you talking about LS50 vs LS50W? If that is the case for the fair comparison you should have done room EQ with the LS50.

 

[DNM]

Are you talking about LS50 vs LS50W? If that is the case for the fair comparison you should have done room EQ with the LS50.

Yes, LS50 vs LS50W, the subject of the thread.

What room EQ precisely? EQ'ing the treble boost?

 

[Krunok]

Yes, LS50 vs LS50W, the subject of the thread.

What room EQ precisely? EQ'ing the treble boost?

Adjusting LS50 in room frequency response to LS50W and correcting phase of it's passive XO.

 

[JJB70]

I don't remember JJ said 2-way coaxial is a requirement. Frankly, I'm not really a believer in coaxial technology as to me it seems it brings more issues than it solves. Regarding directivity, horizontal seem more important to me than vertical as I don't really move much in vertical plane while listening.

Indeed, at the moment I am open minded and flexible. My plan A was to directly replace my old system with something equivalent. Hence my interest in the Yamaha AS-1100 and AS-2200 amplifiers. Which seemed to be the nearest modern equivalent of the TA-F700 short of going up to something like Accuphase. However the Yamaha amplifiers are not quite what I hoped.

So plan B is to buy a new working system and to have my old Sony gear overhauled and kept as my hobby horse in the office. The new set up could be anything really provided it sounds good, is well made and has some WAF. I am interested in the Ls50 and LS50W as I like their sound, my wife can live with them and they are within budget. However I am certainly not set on them. As things are, I would prefer the wireless version, however I still want an optical drive and the £120 difference in price between the active and passive models would pay for an excellent amplifier, pay for my old gear to be revived and probably leave some change. If I have a budget I also see no need to spend it just because it is there.

I will check out the Technics speakers.

 

[Krunok]

Indeed, at the moment I am open minded and flexible. My plan A was to directly replace my old system with something equivalent. Hence my interest in the Yamaha AS-1100 and AS-2200 amplifiers. Which seemed to be the nearest modern equivalent of the TA-F700 short of going up to something like Accuphase. However the Yamaha amplifiers are not quite what I hoped.

So plan B is to buy a new working system and to have my old Sony gear overhauled and kept as my hobby horse in the office. The new set up could be anything really provided it sounds good, is well made and has some WAF. I am interested in the Ls50 and LS50W as I like their sound, my wife can live with them and they are within budget. However I am certainly not set on them. As things are, I would prefer the wireless version, however I still want an optical drive and the £120 difference in price between the active and passive models would pay for an excellent amplifier, pay for my old gear to be revived and probably leave some change. If I have a budget I also see no need to spend it just because it is there.

I will check out the Technics speakers.

IMHO LS50W is simply not worth that money considering what it gives you.

 

[flowjm]

Indeed, at the moment I am open minded and flexible. My plan A was to directly replace my old system with something equivalent. Hence my interest in the Yamaha AS-1100 and AS-2200 amplifiers. Which seemed to be the nearest modern equivalent of the TA-F700 short of going up to something like Accuphase. However the Yamaha amplifiers are not quite what I hoped.

So plan B is to buy a new working system and to have my old Sony gear overhauled and kept as my hobby horse in the office. The new set up could be anything really provided it sounds good, is well made and has some WAF. I am interested in the Ls50 and LS50W as I like their sound, my wife can live with them and they are within budget. However I am certainly not set on them. As things are, I would prefer the wireless version, however I still want an optical drive and the £120 difference in price between the active and passive models would pay for an excellent amplifier, pay for my old gear to be revived and probably leave some change. If I have a budget I also see no need to spend it just because it is there.

I will check out the Technics speakers.

Another option, which is something of a halfway house, is to consider something like the Neumann KH80 DSP.

 

[DNM]

Adjusting LS50 in room frequency response to LS50W and correcting phase of it's passive XO.

Even allowing for phase correction, If you're trying to assert that the discrete parts of passive crossovers in speakers built to the budget and volume of LS50's, are as audibly transparent and consistent as digital crossovers with active amplification, then by all means go for it.

I doubt many owners will consider products like re-phase to correct phase anomalies in their speakers so for the majority, its how they perform out the box that will count. Furthermore, perhaps you could tell me an elegant way to use re-phase with a record player and CDP when my iMac is in a different room to the hifi?

I merely offer my subjective opinion of the two speakers with no mods bar the same bass management compared over a few weeks. If I didn't think the LS50W's were any better they would have gone in the bedroom or moved on but they were considerably better in my 'subjective' opinion. More detail, separation, clarity, cohesion, enjoyment... yadda yadda yadda. Take it or leave it

 

[Biblob]

I will check out the Technics speakers.

The Technics SB-C700's have been on sale for ~$600 (converted from 700 english pound). They did'nt sell well, probably because What-Fi gave them a 2-star review.
If you can get them at this price, second hand, they are a bargain!

 

[Krunok]

Even allowing for phase correction, If you're trying to assert that the discrete parts of passive crossovers in speakers built to the budget and volume of LS50's, are as audibly transparent and consistent as digital crossovers with active amplification, then by all means go for it.
I doubt many owners will consider products like re-phase to correct phase anomalies in their speakers so for the majority, its how they perform out the box that will count.

Active speakers need room EQ to give their best as well. You don't need to master mannual correction with rePhase to do the roomEQ job, automated tools like Audiolense etc do that for small bucks.

Furthermore, perhaps you could tell me an elegant way to use re-phase with a record player and CDP when my iMac is in a different room to the hifi?

Sure - BT dongle and my WiFI network do the job in my case. I can stream 80Mb/s HD videos from NAS to any TV in my house.

 

[Ron Texas]

IMHO LS50W is simply not worth that money considering what it gives you.

In the US the actives are only $900 more and have bass management built in. However, one may already have the electronics they like. The downside is reliability. I would go with studio monitors myself before choosing the LS50W's.

For whatever reason the Panasonic's never caught on and the LS50's did. KEF now has an enormous distribution in the US since they are sold by Magmolia in Best Buy.

 

[DNM]

Active speakers need room EQ to give their best as well. You don't need to master mannual correction with rePhase to do the roomEQ job, automated tools like Audiolense etc do that for small bucks.

I've used REW's auto eq and Dirac extensively so appreciate there are tools to measure and correct in-room response and phase.

I use EQ on my three Sub's but never found any improvement eq'ing or using Dirac above 200hz.

Sure - BT dongle and my WiFI network do the job in my case. I can stream 80Gb/s HD videos from NAS to any TV in my house.

Que? So I can plug my phono stage and spdif cables into a BT dongle?

 

[MZKM]

At least in America:

LS50: $1300
LS50W: $2200

So, a $900 difference.

What is gives you:

* Built-in amplification, more than it can handle.
* Subwoofer output with adjustable 2-way crossover.
* Active crossover for the Uni-Q that improves the frequency response (and possibly imaging if better phase aligned).
* Adjustable DSP to compensate for room placement.
* Streaming.
* All-in-one package

That seems like a decent deal.