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Review and Measurements of Totaldac d1-six DAC

saturdayboy

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Until he performs a controlled test, we don't what "sounds" better to him.

Let me cut through this. If he can tell TotalDAC sound better in a controlled test, I will give him $500.

Until then, I assure that he won't be able to tell the difference between Totaldac and any other DAC. If he could, then he would have picked up its flaws.
By your own reasoning, I should have no trouble identifying it because since it measures so poorly it will sound worse than a good measuring DAC. Then I can just lie, say the worse one sounds better, and take your $500.
 
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amirm

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By your own reasoning, I should have no trouble identifying it because since it measures so poorly it will sound worse than a good measuring DAC.
Not at all. I am confident you can't tell the difference or I would not offer the bounty. I explained that audiophiles can't hear such artifacts since their hearing acuity is poor when it comes to non-linear distortions.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Then I can just lie, say the worse one sounds better, and take your $500.
All proper controlled tests need documentation such as what I post. We of course don't take your word for anything. Sad to know that you are not up for an honest review of whether you can or cannot tell such differences.

I suggest reading this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-x-sabre-pro-mqa-vs-mytek-brooklyn-dac.8643/

And this bit:

1567404286574.png


I encourage you to do as he did. There is a great world of audio waiting for you should you just allow a bit of objectivity in your views...
 

gvl

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This is a NOS DAC with a well pronounced HF droop, you might lose your $500. At least require droop compensation to be on :)
 

Willem

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If the difference is audible it will be because the Totaldac is desperately inferior.
 
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amirm

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This is a NOS DAC with a well pronounced HF droop, you might lose your $500. At least require droop compensation to be on :)
You sure? He says he has been an audiophile for 50 years.... :)
 

Frank Dernie

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One thing that is so very telling is that there is little correlation between the subjective reports in Stereophile and JA's measurements, yet he never seems to question the hearing ability of the subjective reviewers, he just brushes aside these discrepancies.
Yes, very disappointing, althought, tellingly IMO, he does sometimes get a different listener to report on a really badly measuring bit of kit which the reviewer raved over. This almost always results in a rave as well. My interpretation being either that the reviewers like poor reproduction or that they are keen to authenticate each other's golden ears since they are unable to do measurements themselves and would be out of work if subjective reviewing was in any way discredited. Which it has been IMO, but not the vast majority of enthusiasts who are not technically minded so susceptible to even the most implausible belief.
Lets face it, doing a subjective review requires very little skill or effort, though maybe some do put a lot of effort in, whereas making measurements requires knowledge, skill and expensive investment many people making their living from this hobby clearly don't have.
 

BDWoody

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By your own reasoning, I should have no trouble identifying it because since it measures so poorly it will sound worse than a good measuring DAC. Then I can just lie, say the worse one sounds better, and take your $500.

Aren't you clever...
A shame you completely missed the point.
 

VintageFlanker

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sanjunky, haven’t you realized that disagreeing is not encouraged here?
You're deadly wrong. It is quite the opposite. You are strongly encouraged to disagree once you put strong arguments on the table. I said arguments. Not analogies with food, your age, or beautiful sunset or such (then, I'm surprised you didn't mention cars, the most common analogy used by audiopfools).

Your feelings about the Oppo 205 (which has been proven here to be a very transparent device), sounding like a toy, according to you, are telling the hard truth: you simply don't like high-fidelity. You prefer to convince yourself that every € you spend in your poorly engineered Totaldac will make it sounding better. Enjoy, then.
 

BDWoody

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I never did blind testing, that was sarcasm hence the quotes...

That’s my whole point. I read all the reviews, as well as your testing, before I purchased it...

See, around here, when people say they've done 100's of listening tests...they actually have. Real ones.

I don't believe you read Amir's review before you bought it...why would you? This site seems to be against what you believe. Seems more like you were looking for more confirmation of your great purchase, and didn't find it, so immediately joined and started with defensive ignorance, showing zero awareness of anything actually covered IN the thread.

Why? What are you trying (trolling) to accomplish?

It's tough to have honest debate with people who are being...well...dishonest.

Ignorance can be cured. Dishonesty on the other hand...
 

AudioSceptic

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Until he performs a controlled test, we don't what "sounds" better to him.

Let me cut through this. If he can tell TotalDAC sound better in a controlled test, I will give him $500.

Until then, I assure that he won't be able to tell the difference between Totaldac and any other DAC. If he could, then he would have picked up its flaws.
I'm not sure about this. Are you saying the TotalDAC will be indistinguishable in a controlled test, despite its objective flaws? I'm thinking that the flaws are audible, at least to saturdayboy, but he doesn't hear them as flaws, rather he hears them as extra "information" (or whatever we might call it). OTOH if it really is indistinguishable, its flaws don't really matter and are of academic interest only, and we only have the price and build to complain about.
 

AudioSceptic

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By your own reasoning, I should have no trouble identifying it because since it measures so poorly it will sound worse than a good measuring DAC. Then I can just lie, say the worse one sounds better, and take your $500.
No, you won't need to lie. Better/worse is a matter of opinion or taste and doesn't come into it. The question is, can you hear a difference in a controlled test?
 

AudioSceptic

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Yes, very disappointing, althought, tellingly IMO, he does sometimes get a different listener to report on a really badly measuring bit of kit which the reviewer raved over. This almost always results in a rave as well. My interpretation being either that the reviewers like poor reproduction or that they are keen to authenticate each other's golden ears since they are unable to do measurements themselves and would be out of work if subjective reviewing was in any way discredited. Which it has been IMO, but not the vast majority of enthusiasts who are not technically minded so susceptible to even the most implausible belief.
Lets face it, doing a subjective review requires very little skill or effort, though maybe some do put a lot of effort in, whereas making measurements requires knowledge, skill and expensive investment many people making their living from this hobby clearly don't have.
Yes, that's pretty much how I see it. Of course, we have a general problem where irrationality and lack of critical thinking have been on the rise for some time, or at least that's my perception. I still can't understand how someone can be able to earn enough, yet also be stupid enough, to buy stuff like this <http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost_ODIN 2_ Digital_Interconnect_Cables.htm> (for anyone wondering, that's £2328/metre, plus £7750 for both connectors).
 

Veri

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Yes, that's pretty much how I see it. Of course, we have a general problem where irrationality and lack of critical thinking have been on the rise for some time, or at least that's my perception. I still can't understand how someone can be able to earn enough, yet also be stupid enough, to buy stuff like this <http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost_ODIN 2_ Digital_Interconnect_Cables.htm> (for anyone wondering, that's £2328/metre, plus £7750 for both connectors).
That 2002-style website design doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
 

PierreV

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Yes, that's pretty much how I see it. Of course, we have a general problem where irrationality and lack of critical thinking have been on the rise for some time, or at least that's my perception. I still can't understand how someone can be able to earn enough, yet also be stupid enough, to buy stuff like this <http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost_ODIN 2_ Digital_Interconnect_Cables.htm> (for anyone wondering, that's £2328/metre, plus £7750 for both connectors).

I have a friend who bought a pair of 90K EUR speakers. A very bright guy in his field. Wasn't too happy with the sound, asked me. Turned out he was using BT from his iPhone to stream. That was 3-4 years ago, not even a good BT. If I had been a dealer, I could have approached the issue by saying "let me solve that for you by deploying my expertise, install fancy cables, fix the streaming (without necessarily mentioning it) and maybe add a totaldac to the mix. :)

One of my acquaintances (not a friend, those guys don't have friends) wanted a home theater and asked his reseller for "the best", gave him a global budget and ignored the details. Another one, also quite bright in her field, asked me to connect some equipment. There was exactly one output, one cable in the box, and one free input matching the cable in her system...
 

AudioSceptic

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I have a friend who bought a pair of 90K EUR speakers. A very bright guy in his field. Wasn't too happy with the sound, asked me. Turned out he was using BT from his iPhone to stream. That was 3-4 years ago, not even a good BT. If I had been a dealer, I could have approached the issue by saying "let me solve that for you by deploying my expertise, install fancy cables, fix the streaming (without necessarily mentioning it) and maybe add a totaldac to the mix. :)

One of my acquaintances (not a friend, those guys don't have friends) wanted a home theater and asked his reseller for "the best", gave him a global budget and ignored the details. Another one, also quite bright in her field, asked me to connect some equipment. There was exactly one output, one cable in the box, and one free input matching the cable in her system...
Yebbut, what if she had connected the cable the wrong way round? Wouldn't the electrons get confused, or perhaps refuse to move at all?

But actually, I think that this sort of technophobia is quite common. I wonder, have there ever been large scale surveys on questions like, "Do you know what Ohm's Law is?".
 

Julf

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But actually, I think that this sort of technophobia is quite common. I wonder, have there ever been large scale surveys on questions like, "Do you know what Ohm's Law is?".

"Ah, but laws are just an opinion"
 

doctorjuggles

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I'm not sure about this. Are you saying the TotalDAC will be indistinguishable in a controlled test, despite its objective flaws? I'm thinking that the flaws are audible, at least to saturdayboy, but he doesn't hear them as flaws, rather he hears them as extra "information" (or whatever we might call it). OTOH if it really is indistinguishable, its flaws don't really matter and are of academic interest only, and we only have the price and build to complain about.

I may be misunderstanding here, but it’s the other way around. The way I read Amir’s subjective comments on this review was that, in spite of him knowing how poorly this DAC measures, he wasn’t able to hear much difference, and he has vast experience in ABX testing. So he is challenging his own bias, just from the other side of the fence, so to speak. Of the reviews I’ve read here on ASR, he’s usually very open and fair on this point.

I think in light of this fact, he’s fairly confident that our Totaldac-owning new friend won’t be able to identify the product in a blind test either, he’s basically said that even as badly as it’s implemented, it’s still effectively transparent, as are 99% of the products that get reviewed on this site. All that’s left to quibble over are price, build, features and aesthetics.
 
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