Turntables - help me understand the appeal?

[restorer-john]

Here's my old Kenwood I was talking about the other day.

She's pretty.

 

[BDWoody]

I'm no longer interested in vinyl due to my low tolerance for surface noise, and my preference for the black background of digital audio. Also, I enjoyed five decades of handling first, vinyl records, then CDs (plus reel-to-reel tape for "mixes" at home and cassette tapes primarily for use in my car). No more, thank you!

Some people seem to find pleasure in handling physical vintage (or vintage-style) recorded media such as records, tapes and CDs. I assume that even the act of setting the stylus down carefully in the space between tracks is enjoyable by some. (Music on USB flash drives doesn't seem to evoke the same pleasurable emotions - although I still use that method for my car.)

Regarding turntables and vinyl in today's audio market, I found this comment in a 2018 Stereophile discussion interesting...



TV also can feature vinyl. I do not watch TV per se, but occasionally download and binge-watch a TV series. I really enjoyed "Bosch" - the story of a detective who bought a nice house in the Hollywood hills with its glass walls overlooking LA. The backstory was that he earned a significant amount of money by consulting on a movie about one of his cases and bouthe milion dollar plus house with the proceeds - a plausible explanation. His stereo is vintage, and prominently featured in the storyline, as is his love of vinyl and jazz, including one of my favorite artists, saxophone player Art Pepper. (I saw Art Pepper jam with Joe Farrell live in 1979 at Pasquale's - a Malibu Beach jazz club owned by bass player Pat Senatore - who is still alive and playing jazz at age 83 - but that's another long story.) Harry's Bosch's clearly featured stereo consisted of a turntable (Marantz 6300TT?), McIntosh MX110 Tuner/preamp, McIntosh 240 stereo tube amplifier, and a pair of Ohm Walsh omni-directional speakers. The series also included made a sub-story based on Harry Bosch's efforts to introduce his teen-age daughter - who lived with his ex-wife - to vinyl. If you are an audiophile and like film-noir style detective stories, this is a good series.

Now, at age 77, for listening to music and playing with audio components and systems, I thoroughly enjoy modern digital audio technology. A lot of listening today relies on the random access feature of digital audio technology via playlists - a method I never use. Rather, I almost always listen to my collection of music via random playing of directories and sub-directories (except, of course, for symphonies and other recordings designed to be listened to in sequence.

My digital music collection on my NAS is as organised as my previous collections of first vinyl, then CD, but digital music is much easier to access and play with a headless player software app. I currently use Daphile, a robust and mature free Linux-based self-booting app that I can control from a browser on any network-connected computer or smart device by simply entering its IP address.

You are right about Bosch...that is a very nice setup he's got going on there.
I also enjoy that one...

 

[levimax]

A resurgence. A feature of fads. Most(nearly all) experienced vinyl users dumped it when the convenient and technically better CD arrived. Many had already shunned it when the Compact Cassette appeared.

8-track was a fad for a while. Now Compact Cassettes and reel to reel are. Ghettoblasters, anyone?

I had vinyl records for many years and threw them away when I got my first CD player in 1985, so yes I did literally "dump" my vinyl collection which was a mistake. I now enjoy collecting and playing vinyl records and CD's as well as streaming and downloads. My guess is vinyl records will still be in use long after CD's are forgotten and can no longer be played because of lack of players and CD "rot". As has been mentioned in this thread over and over vinyl offers utility for it's users that no other media can duplicate.

 

[Wombat]

I have no problem with people wishing to play vinyl records. I have 700 or so myself and two very good turntables. I played vinyl for 30 years but haven't played them for at least the past 20 years. I plan on setting up one of my turntables some day so I can copy some long out of print titles.
I have a very good technical understanding of the medium, both in knowledge and application. The only superior thing about vinyl is that old farts like me can read the liner notes more easily. Oh, and some titles that are not currently available can be found on vinyl - this is probably more so on Bakelite but I don't hear much about 78s.

Spurious claims get my attention.

Claims such as " ..... vinyl offers utility for it's users that no other media can duplicate' is pure rhetoric, without substantiation. This forum deserves better than that.

 

[restorer-john]

My guess is vinyl records will still be in use long after CD's are forgotten and can no longer be played because of lack of players and CD "rot".

Lack of players? There are billions of functional players around the world. Every house would have several in the forms of DVD players, CDROMs, blurays, car CD players, laptop drives and dedicated CD players.

And CD 'rot' was/is a very isolated period when manufacturing techniques were different. It affected a tiny proportion of CDs. I have 10,000+ CDs and there's not a single 'rot' issue amongst them.

 

[MattHooper]

I

Spurious claims get my attention.
Claims such as " vinyl offers utility for it's users that no other media can duplicate' is pure rhetoric without substantiation. This forum deserves better than that.

I'm curious why you say that. This 35 page long thread has been full of detail on what type of "utility" vinyl offers some people that they don't get from other media. Examples: particular sonic signature some people like, the historical and singularly long-lasting history of the medium that people like to plug in to, the large, physical artwork, the particular tactile nature of album covers and vinyl itself (great colored vinyl these days too that people love), the "cool-factor" of turntables, the interactive nature of turntables, all the interesting decisions that go in to buying one (arms, cartridges, type, isolation, etc), they way the demands of vinyl - both in upkeep and how you play it - tend to lead many to focus more when deciding to listen to music. Among others.

 

[Wombat]

I'm curious why you say that. This 35 page long thread has been full of detail on what type of "utility" vinyl offers some people that they don't get from other media. Examples: particular sonic signature some people like, the historical and singularly long-lasting history of the medium that people like to plug in to, the large, physical artwork, the particular tactile nature of album covers and vinyl itself (great colored vinyl these days too that people love), the "cool-factor" of turntables, the interactive nature of turntables, all the interesting decisions that go in to buying one (arms, cartridges, type, isolation, etc), they way the demands of vinyl - both in upkeep and how you play it - tend to lead many to focus more when deciding to listen to music. Among others.

It has taken 686 posts to get this summary. @levimax did not reference them(probably has his own opinions, too) and I haven't memorised them all.

 

[restorer-john]

Here's the Michell I owned.

 

[restorer-john]

And a few more of the 'guts'

 

[MattHooper]

It has taken 686 posts to get this summary. @levimax did not reference them(probably has his own opinions, too) and I haven't memorised them all.

Well it's fair for levimax to short-hand reference information found in this very thread in abundance, and which has been explicated as well by levimax himself. I think maybe jumping on his comment was a bit too quick and maybe he's already explained this many times?

 

[levimax]

I have no problem with people wishing to play vinyl records. I have 700 or so myself and two very good turntables. I played vinyl for 30 years but haven't played them for at least the past 20 years. I plan on setting up one of my turntables some day so I can copy some long out of print titles.
I have a very good technical understanding of the medium, both in knowledge and application. The only superior thing about vinyl is that old farts like me can read the liner notes more easily. Oh, and some titles that are not currently available can be found on vinyl - this is probably more so on Bakelite but I don't hear much about 78s.

Spurious claims get my attention.

Claims such as " ..... vinyl offers utility for it's users that no other media can duplicate' is pure rhetoric, without substantiation. This forum deserves better than that.

I am referring to economic utility : Utility is a term used by economists to describe the measurement of "useful-ness" that a consumer obtains from any good. Utility is the want satisfying power of any commodity or capacity of a commodity to give satisfaction. Utility may measure how much one enjoys a movie, or the sense of security one gets from buying a deadbolt. The utility of any object or circumstance can be considered. Some examples include the utility from eating an apple, from living in a certain house, from voting for a specific candidate, from having a given wireless phone plan. In fact, every decision that an individual makes in their daily life can be viewed as a comparison between the utility gained from pursuing one option or another.

I stand by my comment on players... Very few of the DVD or blue ray players made in the last 5 years will play CD's, same with cars. Lap tops no longer have optical drives. I would say less that half of people I know have ability to play CDs any more and it is dropping fast.

CD rot was a bit of a troll... I buy used CD all the time and the real old ones are fine but I am finding more and more CD's that look good but rip with errors and some won't even play. Yes small percentage and probably abused in some way but if I was to bet what would survive better for the next 50 years stuck in a box in an attic I would bet on the lp.

 

[watchnerd]

Here's the Michell I owned.

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That's a sweet ride.

Back in the day when LP was the only mass medium, I can see why one would want to maximize speed stability, low rumble, etc.

But these days, when we have high rez digital if you want perfection, and LP listening is an eccentric hobby......well, to me, it's like driving a vintage Alfa Romeo vs modern cars. Being technically better isn't really the point.

It's all about the panache....

 

[Wombat]

I am referring to economic utility : Utility is a term used by economists to describe the measurement of "useful-ness" that a consumer obtains from any good. Utility is the want satisfying power of any commodity or capacity of a commodity to give satisfaction. Utility may measure how much one enjoys a movie, or the sense of security one gets from buying a deadbolt. The utility of any object or circumstance can be considered. Some examples include the utility from eating an apple, from living in a certain house, from voting for a specific candidate, from having a given wireless phone plan. In fact, every decision that an individual makes in their daily life can be viewed as a comparison between the utility gained from pursuing one option or another.

I stand by my comment on players... Very few of the DVD or blue ray players made in the last 5 years will play CD's, same with cars. Lap tops no longer have optical drives. I would say less that half of people I know have ability to play CDs any more and it is dropping fast.

CD rot was a bit of a troll... I buy used CD all the time and the real old ones are fine but I am finding more and more CD's that look good but rip with errors and some won't even play. Yes small percentage and probably abused in some way but if I was to bet what would survive better for the next 50 years stuck in a box in an attic I would bet on the lp.

Your utility claim is very broad. If you said it applies to yourself rather than giving it a general expression(users) you would be on safer ground.
I would say that the utility that endears you to vinyl may well not be utility to me.

Enjoy your vinyl.

 

[JohnBooty]

It's bizarre and rude that some folks can't discuss this topic without insulting others. If you see somebody making objectively wrong claims, sure, fire away but that's not what I'm seeing here.

I see a lot of things mentioned on these forums that aren't to my liking, and never do I really feel the need to belittle anything.

I do the vast majority of my listening on digital, not vinyl, so it's not like I feel particularly attacked or anything. I think this site is a notch above others due to Amir's hard, hard work but this sort of childish crap holds this place back, which is a shame.

 

[Blumlein 88]

snip

I stand by my comment on players... Very few of the DVD or blue ray players made in the last 5 years will play CD's, same with cars. Lap tops no longer have optical drives. I would say less that half of people I know have ability to play CDs any more and it is dropping fast.

CD rot was a bit of a troll... I buy used CD all the time and the real old ones are fine but I am finding more and more CD's that look good but rip with errors and some won't even play. Yes small percentage and probably abused in some way but if I was to bet what would survive better for the next 50 years stuck in a box in an attic I would bet on the lp.

What?? I've not looked at hundreds of available players, but I've seen and used several Samsung, LG, and Sony bluray or DVD players and all play CD. A few no longer mention it on the box, but if you check they do. Maybe some no name grocery store $19.99 DVD special doesn't. But you don't have to make up stuff just because you like vinyl.

 

[levimax]

Your utility claim is very broad. If you said it applies to yourself rather than giving it a general expression(users) you would be on safer ground.
I would say that the utility that endears you to vinyl may well not be utility to me.

Enjoy your vinyl.

According to Forbes 16,000,000 records were sold in 2018 ..... By definition the format provides utility to many people. I agree it is unexpected.

 

[watchnerd]

I stand by my comment on players... Very few of the DVD or blue ray players made in the last 5 years will play CD's, same with cars. Lap tops no longer have optical drives. I would say less that half of people I know have ability to play CDs any more and it is dropping fast.

CD rot was a bit of a troll... I buy used CD all the time and the real old ones are fine but I am finding more and more CD's that look good but rip with errors and some won't even play. Yes small percentage and probably abused in some way but if I was to bet what would survive better for the next 50 years stuck in a box in an attic I would bet on the lp.

I love my vinyl, but the CD obsolescence argument seems like a complete red herring.

I ripped all my CDs to FLAC years ago, where they live on my NAS. I don't even have an optical drive anywhere in my house (to your point re: drives).

But that doesn't stop me from listening to digital. CD was just a delivery / storage mechanism, but the audio is severable from the medium.

 

[watchnerd]

BTW, I think an interesting question would be:

Why bother with CDs?

I can get everything I want from FLACs, and have the option of getting high rez versions that I can't get via CDs. Plus the flexibility to make playlists, search on meta tags, etc.

 

[levimax]

What?? I've not looked at hundreds of available players, but I've seen and used several Samsung, LG, and Sony bluray or DVD players and all play CD. A few no longer mention it on the box, but if you check they do. Maybe some no name grocery store $19.99 DVD special doesn't. But you don't have to make up stuff just because you like vinyl.

I got this information from a friend who bought a blue ray player that does not play CDs. He said he checked multiple stores and could not find a blu ray player that plays CD but he is very cheap. Checking with amazon I see most of their players do still play CDs so I stand corrected. I do notice many people now stream both video and music and less and less can play any optical disc. I have many hundreds more CDs than records and enjoy both and wish the best for all formats. I do wonder though in 50 years what will happen.... I would not be surprised if there is still vinyl being used and CDs will be forgotten.... I won't be around in any case.

 

[restorer-john]

BTW, I think an interesting question would be:

Why bother with CDs?

Start a thread on that topic.