• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,617
Likes
13,638
Location
NorCal
it's actually the middle tweeter moved outside just a bit for some reason, if I had them it would drive me crazy once I saw that
View attachment 362233
Don't feel bad as an amateur woodworker and carpenter I have the same OCD. There is patio next to US White House that many Presidents have given updates and speeches. Behind the podium on White House there is a pair of French Doors. I don't care which topic, which President, which party, I have never heard one word because one doorknob is a half inch higher than the other and I think what is happening to my country, how can this be.
 

Mnyb

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
2,864
Likes
4,030
Location
Sweden, Västerås
A lesson I learned long ago. People like to believe they've stumbled on some great new audio discovery so they latch on to these brands and their creators and it forms into a type of cult. In audio, for every one fringe brand that has some merit there's fifty that are just passing through, and will eventually be forgotten. I've seen it so many times.
Perfect description of high end audio for the last 30 years a parade of hair brained schemes by lone “geniuses” in their sheds :) and some few real brands prevailing somehow .
 

Hart

Active Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2021
Messages
166
Likes
421
Location
Bay area
Tekton has done exponentially more damage to their brand from bullying than the review could ever do. I would never buy a product from a purveyor that was capable of that behavior. The impulse lacked any strategic or long term thinking.
 

Moonbase

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2023
Messages
74
Likes
39
There is always risk when posting negative reviews. Many publications never post negative reviews and you could work on the basis no reviews means avoid.
The company should have asked Erin to remove the review if the considered it flawed.
Legal action is very expensive and the company have suggested they have suffered financial loss, flags danger signs here.
In general while I suspect Erin view is 100% correct, maybe just move on and celebrate the successes.
 

kemmler3D

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
3,569
Likes
7,281
Location
San Francisco
Tekton has done exponentially more damage to their brand from bullying than the review could ever do. I would never buy a product from a purveyor that was capable of that behavior. The impulse lacked any strategic or long term thinking.
Indeed, trying to bully your way out of a bad review is like starting in a small hole and trying to dynamite your way out of it.

I've dealt with a few so-so or bad reviews in the past on the manufacturer's side. It's a very upsetting feeling when you get a bad review, to be sure. It makes you afraid for your income. It's not fun. You feel simultaneously helpless and indignant. You want to tell them to shut up, somehow. But it's part of the game. It doesn't matter how good your product is, at some point it's going to get bad reviews. If you can't take the heat, etc. etc.

Legally, there is actually nothing you can do about it unless they're intentionally flat-out lying about your product. And you have to prove that in court to win. Truth is an absolute defense to libel and matters of opinion are not subject to the law either. At least, this is what I'm told by actual lawyers.

So it's really unclear what Alexander thinks he's doing here, other than trying to sound tough and scare people away from posting facts about his products.

What he's actually doing is giving everyone a great reason never to buy anything from Tekton again - that's his best case scenario at this point.

Worst case is he is so far out of touch with reality* that he actually sues Erin. It gets worse for him if it goes to trial. It will be a slow, tedious, unpleasant way to waste at least $50K and probably more assuming Erin's side goes for attorney's fees. Because I don't think there's any way to win this case on the merits. Not a lawyer, but truthful reviews aren't something courts tend to strike down in the US regardless of tone.

Erin could have gone on his YT channel and said "Tekton speakers are the worst abominations of audio criminality ever inflicted upon the ears of man" and "I think nobody should ever buy anything they make ever again". That's legally airtight. Tekton took a small loss and made it a big one.


* This seems possible, since I suspect his taking his own products down is an attempt to show monetary damages from the review. This is pretty silly. You can't smash your own window and make your neighbor's kid pay for it just because he plays baseball. But over the years I've found the more narcissistic and delusional someone is, the more of the law they think they understand... so that's my theory on that.
 
Last edited:

kemmler3D

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
3,569
Likes
7,281
Location
San Francisco
Also, if the goal is to fix a bad review, this is not how you do it. I've fixed bad reviews before too, although mostly on Amazon... but the main thing is to treat the reviewer with respect, let them know you think something went wrong with the product and politely ask if they'd be willing to work with you to fix it, and potentially re-review if things change.

While sometimes a bad review is just a bad review, if you act decently often the reviewer will have a positive attitude about you, and try to at least soften the bad news in the review as a result.

Going in guns blazing results in... well, this.
 

pseudoid

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
5,299
Likes
3,683
Location
33.6 -117.9
The lack of loser-pays is a massive flaw in the US legal system, but it's a flaw that benefits lawyers immensely, so it will likely never be fixed.
Lawyers have mostly been respected as pariahs, vampires$ and/or landshark$.
The whole profession deserves a serious shakedown; worse than NAR (30+% vs. 6%).
Fine-print: imho
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
7,062
Likes
6,934
Location
UK
View attachment 362292
View attachment 362295
I'm sure both @amirm and Erin will be glad to learn that they just are "weekend reviewers" with basically no clue about how to use a Klippel NFS properly... :rolleyes:
It just goes to show that people making those comments don't know anything about audio and/or haven't spent anytime here on ASR or at Erin's to understand what's going on. Dunning Kruger Effect!
 

kemmler3D

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
3,569
Likes
7,281
Location
San Francisco
View attachment 362292
View attachment 362295
I'm sure both @amirm and Erin will be glad to learn that they just are "weekend reviewers" with basically no clue about how to use a Klippel NFS properly... :rolleyes:
This person knows as much about audio as they do the law, I am sure. Like Erin's measurements happen to align very well with KEF's (notorious amateurs, lol) but the minute he starts measuring a Tekton product he's incapable... sure.
 

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,617
Likes
13,638
Location
NorCal
Also, if the goal is to fix a bad review, this is not how you do it. I've fixed bad reviews before too, although mostly on Amazon... but the main thing is to treat the reviewer with respect, let them know you think something went wrong with the product and politely ask if they'd be willing to work with you to fix it, and potentially re-review if things change.

While sometimes a bad review is just a bad review, if you act decently often the reviewer will have a positive attitude about you, and try to at least soften the bad news in the review as a result.

Going in guns blazing results in... well, this.
Yes to this. But Erin wimped out in the face of high cash outlay. He was too docile in face hostility and financial loss. He was given an out which has a chance of him saving face and that is, retesting with the footer holes plunged and re-posting no matter of outcome. Tekton on the other hand dug a very deep hole to climb out of by their hostile responses, even with a very good measured re-test.
 

kemmler3D

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
3,569
Likes
7,281
Location
San Francisco
Yes to this. But Erin wimped out in the face of high cash outlay. He was too docile in face hostility and financial loss. He was given an out which has a chance of him saving face and that is, retesting with the footer holes plunged and re-posting no matter of outcome. Tekton on the other hand dug a very deep hole to climb out of by their hostile responses, even with a very good measured re-test.
Arguably yes, but a good reviewer will agree to re-test if the manufacturer points out a legitimate problem with the review.

If it were me, I'd probably spend the rest of the afternoon writing a really biting, clever way to say "GFY"... but I don't think it's unreasonable to fold in that situation, if you don't have a confident sense of how much risk you're actually facing. So I don't really blame Erin for how he's navigating it.

A good manufacturer won't jump straight to legal threats, but leaving all that aside, re-testing with the feet inserted is reasonable.

If Erin cares what I think, well, I think he should post the updated review, plus all of his correspondence with Mr. Alexander, plus a strong recommendation never to buy anything from him, speakers or otherwise, plus some choice words about Mr. Alexander. But what Erin should actually do is what he believes is right for him, not what a bunch of spectators would like to see.
 

VintageFlanker

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
5,042
Likes
20,241
Location
Paris
Like Erin's measurements happen to align very well with KEF's (notorious amateurs, lol) but the minute he starts measuring a Tekton product he's incapable... sure.
Again: where are the measurements from Tekton, that Amir's or Erin's are supposed to align with ?
1000029859.gif
 

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,617
Likes
13,638
Location
NorCal
Arguably yes, but a good reviewer will agree to re-test if the manufacturer points out a legitimate problem with the review.

If it were me, I'd probably spend the rest of the afternoon writing a really biting, clever way to say "GFY"... but I don't think it's unreasonable to fold in that situation, if you don't have a confident sense of how much risk you're actually facing. So I don't really blame Erin for how he's navigating it.

A good manufacturer won't jump straight to legal threats, but leaving all that aside, re-testing with the feet inserted is reasonable.
Agreed we all back seat driving. I feel for the guy as I like his style and work. And clearly Amir has stepped up to the plate to help someone for which he has no commercial interest. Just a philosophical one.
 

Bruce Morgen

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
937
Likes
1,443
Does the apparently litigious Mr. Alexander really believe plugging those holes will change the impression Erin got that the speaker sounded "bright?" It's not like an enclosure leak is going affect the response of those sealed-back midrange and HF drivers.
 

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,617
Likes
13,638
Location
NorCal
Does the apparently litigious Mr. Alexander really believe plugging those holes will change the impression Erin got that the speaker sounded "bright?" It's not like an enclosure leak is going affect the response of those sealed-back midrange and HF drivers.
Yes this has been said and is most certainly true. But Tekton said this was issue to Erin and early on Erin said he would retest, but with current state of things with lawyers involved who knows?
 

Salt

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
656
Likes
365
Location
DE
The discussion is starting not only running out in circles but centrifugal spirals.
After following all posts I'm at the point I would very be pleased to get updated by posts of Amir or Moderators only over progress ...

Please
 
Top Bottom