New mysterious Genelec monitors

[greenmountains]

So to what length do we want to go to measure this speaker? Assuming Genelec is willing, I would need a professional crew to help unpack and load it up on NFS platform. I will likely need to build a crane to hang the thing from the ceiling, etc. Let's say we are talking $1,000 for this. Genelec of course would have to chip in with shipping which will cost near this. Do we think it is worth going through such an expense and effort for something that almost none of you will buy?

Totally not worth it.

If Genelec paid for shipping, all expenses, and the time involved, then sure - it'd be fun. But Genelec has never seemed like a company to throw around money like that.

A big value of measurements is it allows potential purchasers to make a decision without having to listen to the speakers first. Reviews and measurements may be enough to convince people to buy $10k monitors and under.

Nobody is buying $60k+ monitors without listening to them in person first.

 

[Bjorn]

How does Genelec portray their off-axis measurements (smoothing)?

 

[Thomas Lund]

Small group delay variation and linear phase response result in improved sound quality.

> Can you show any independent research validating this claim? Including the point at which further reductions are inaudible, please?

Having listened quite a bit to the 81s, I think the perceptual benefit of having point source, controlled directivity and constant phase *combined* speaks for itself. It is not important in recreative listening, but professionals rely on (small) head and body movements to provide detailed information, e.g. about the source versus the room, and that is where The Ones deliver. At short listening distance, the unusual combination is very noticeable. You can listen (and measure) reliably to 81 down to 50 cm distance or shorter.

 

[Thomas Lund]

How does Genelec portray their off-axis measurements (smoothing)?

View attachment 285960

Anechoic measurements, un-smoothed.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Wait a second
Do they have a built in DAC?

 

[Purité Audio]

I’ll include one in the price!
Keith

 

[Keith_W]

So to what length do we want to go to measure this speaker? Assuming Genelec is willing, I would need a professional crew to help unpack and load it up on NFS platform. I will likely need to build a crane to hang the thing from the ceiling, etc. Let's say we are talking $1,000 for this. Genelec of course would have to chip in with shipping which will cost near this. Do we think it is worth going through such an expense and effort for something that almost none of you will buy?

Yup, there is a certain type of selection bias here. I am not blaming you at all, it is the reality of the products that you get for review. ASR relies on volunteers to send in equipment for measurement, or you have to buy it yourself. This limits reviewed products to anything that can be bought inexpensively or shipped inexpensively. From time to time we do get glimpses of high end audio, e.g. DCA Stealths and some Focal headphones - but that is because those things are fairly robust and easy to ship. I would LOOOOVE to see measurements of these speakers or even well known high end speakers like the Tannoy Westminister, but the reality is that it's not going to happen because (1) shipping will be prohibitively expensive, (2) Your first name is not Arnold and last name is not Schwarzenegger, and (3) unlikely to get support from the manufacturers because they may not want their products exposed and criticized by someone outside their control, and (4) as you point out, ASR is not the likely market.

 

[amirm]

Do you have a relationship with a local Genelec distributor?

I have excellent contacts both at headquarters and US subsidiary. They have been kind enough to loan me samples before. Whether that kindness extends to this giant speaker, remains to be seen.

 

[amirm]

Yup, there is a certain type of selection bias here. I am not blaming you at all, it is the reality of the products that you get for review. ASR relies on volunteers to send in equipment for measurement, or you have to buy it yourself. This limits reviewed products to anything that can be bought inexpensively or shipped inexpensively. From time to time we do get glimpses of high end audio, e.g. DCA Stealths and some Focal headphones - but that is because those things are fairly robust and easy to ship. I would LOOOOVE to see measurements of these speakers or even well known high end speakers like the Tannoy Westminister, but the reality is that it's not going to happen because (1) shipping will be prohibitively expensive, (2) Your first name is not Arnold and last name is not Schwarzenegger, and (3) unlikely to get support from the manufacturers because they may not want their products exposed and criticized by someone outside their control, and (4) as you point out, ASR is not the likely market.

Some of these problems are solvable. Question is, should we try to do that? I recently had a company offer 120 pound speakers for testing and I passed on it (for now). I have to see if I can locate some local help that can come as a crew and get things setup and teardown much like a company would. As I noted though, this means $500 or more out of pocket for logistics. I am game doing it if the value is there.

 

[Fotophred]

As usual I am the exception.
I have a pair of 8361s and they are a superb speaker system,
Would I buy 8381s? - if I could hear upgrade difference yes I would.
Approaching retirement and recently down sized so have the cash in the bank - if and it is a very big if the 8381s stacked up musically purchasing the 8381s may make sense

 

[Keith_W]

Some of these problems are solvable. Question is, should we try to do that? I recently had a company offer 120 pound speakers for testing and I passed on it (for now). I have to see if I can locate some local help that can come as a crew and get things setup and teardown much like a company would. As I noted though, this means $500 or more out of pocket for logistics. I am game doing it if the value is there.

I can't answer that question. I can't speak for others, but for me 50% of what you review is for entertainment value and I would only seriously consider buying 50% of what you review. All for different reasons. You should do a survey if you want to know the answer to that question, it might even help with your proposed submission to AES Without knowing the product you are considering I have no idea which half it is going to fall into for me. I don't know what you get out of this apart from satisfaction for providing a service. To me it seems as if you are spending a lot of your own hard earned money for this community with no financial reward, or even compensation for your expenses. Only you know how sustainable this is, and if you start spending a lot of money on your reviews then it won't be sustainable for too long.

In carpentry we always ask ourselves whether we bring the workpiece to the tool, or the tool to the workpiece. The tool always goes to the workpiece if it is too big/heavy to handle safely. I have no idea how easy/difficult it is to dismantle a Klippel and travel to a Genelec dealer, and whether you could be bothered.

 

[sweetchaos]

I am game doing it if the value is there.

Start a poll, and if 250+ people vote 'yes', then there's value.

I chose 250 since a few of your latest reviews got that many votes.

 

[807Recordings]

So to what length do we want to go to measure this speaker? Assuming Genelec is willing, I would need a professional crew to help unpack and load it up on NFS platform. I will likely need to build a crane to hang the thing from the ceiling, etc. Let's say we are talking $1,000 for this. Genelec of course would have to chip in with shipping which will cost near this. Do we think it is worth going through such an expense and effort for something that almost none of you will buy?

It would be interesting to see if we can get a truly SOTA flagship speaker tested independently on a SOTA test system. At the very least this can be referenced on what is achievable and hopefully what we can aspire to. Perhaps years down the road we can look back in the timeline when this product appeared and how far we have progressed or not.

 

[thewas]

Interesting people could be disappointed by this announcement. Genelec came out with a speaker designed profoundly different from the rest of their speaker portfolio.

Maybe it’s just sour grapes because it isn’t relevant as a home speaker, but talk about a tough crowd.

I fully agree, it is not a beauty but if someone asks me I think it is currently as a total package the best loudspeaker of the world, combining neutral reproduction, highest SPL and flexibility of placement like nothing else. Also at 70k pair price it makes most "high end" loudspeakers look like toys in just optically nice enclosures.

 

[Sokel]

So to what length do we want to go to measure this speaker? Assuming Genelec is willing, I would need a professional crew to help unpack and load it up on NFS platform. I will likely need to build a crane to hang the thing from the ceiling, etc. Let's say we are talking $1,000 for this. Genelec of course would have to chip in with shipping which will cost near this. Do we think it is worth going through such an expense and effort for something that almost none of you will buy?

Measuring a speaker like this can be a benchmark for ASR.
It would expose skill,ability and status,things not easy to get with small,cheap devices.

So it's solely up to you if you're willing to do the extra step.
It would also be a nice test about the whole effort needed to do something like that,and what better chance if that speaker is one of the best as claimed?

If something like this is about to happen that is the chance.

 

[Purité Audio]

Genelec as should every loudspeaker manufacturer provide the full Klippel measurement suite.
Keith

 

[goat76]

Measuring a speaker like this can be a benchmark for ASR.
It would expose skill,ability and status,things not easy to get with small,cheap devices.

So it's solely up to you if you're willing to do the extra step.
It would also be a nice test about the whole effort needed to do something like that,and what better chance if that speaker is one of the best as claimed?

If something like this is about to happen that is the chance.

This speaker comes in three separate pieces, how much do they each weigh and could they be lifted up piece by piece to the Klippel system?

 

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

I don’t know who else does controlled dispersion in a domestically acceptably package. KEF I suppose. Who does variable dispersion? I guess only B&O?

PERLISTEN® Audio

Perlisten Audio - The art of emotional connection and discovery through perceptual listening. American manufacturer featuring speakers, subwoofers, and in-wall speakers.

www.perlistenaudio.com

I am not a fan of passive speakers, but it is incredible what Perlisten accomplished passively. Beamforming drivers integrate into the waveguide. It’s sort of similar to Genelec’s approach

 

[Sokel]

This speaker comes in three separate pieces, how much do they each weigh and could they be lifted up piece by piece to the Klippel system?

75 Kg a piece the speakers and 22 Kg is the amps.
Heavy stuff but not as heavy as a single Beolad 90 for example.
If thing it's manageable but I only say that from my armchair (and when I move my stuff I have special ways ).

It's up to anyone's back to decide.

 

[Purité Audio]

U.K. price confirmed at £30k ( each) first production run isn’t until August so Pearljam start saving.
Keith