My First High End IEM - 64 Audio U12t

[markanini]

I guess I was not aware of that.

BTW, I'm assuming you value your time. EQing IEMs to Sonarworks target curve is not conducive to that, it's based on three generations old ear simulator tech. You don't like the resulting output as you say. Your superior solution is a $20 IEM that's correctly EQ'd out of the box. Don't overthink it, others that have been through your situation will know.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

BTW, I'm assuming you value your time. EQing IEMs to Sonarworks target curve is not conducive to that, it's based on three generations old ear simulator tech. You don't like the resulting output as you say. Your superior solution is a $20 IEM that's correctly EQ'd out of the box. Don't overthink it, others that have been through your situation will know.

And I appreciate you guys offering different cheap solution but I just prefer to go back to professional studio headphone just because I know exactly what to expect as I can try them everywhere here in Montreal.

But before jumping to conclusion, I really need to give them a shot with the 1/4 cable that will arrive tomorrow.

I found out earlier today that I have an issue with the cable termination and/or the 1/8 jack being loose in the 1/4 jack adapter.

I was just listening to Dr Dre chronic and the centre channel completely disappeared so I was left with nothing but an instrumental haha.

I moved the cable a bit and it came back on.

Also, as much as I was overwhelmed by the bass yesterday, today it almost feel shy like the high mids and presence frequencies. All I hear today is extremely focused and upfront mids and mid lows with a tint of bass and barely any sub frequencies. The mid highs and presence still feel shy. Especially the presence. I can't get any sparkle in anything i feed it. Nothing.

Also, almost half of the kick drums I hear on Rap track today sounded like they distorted badly. I never experienced any of this on Dr Dre Chronic 2001 before and its everywhere. Thats not normal.

I'm listening to Still DRE as we speak and the kick sound like its hitting 9 db in the red on a tape machine.

There's definitely something weird going on as we speak and I need to understand what it is.

As for Sonarworks, I uninstalled it early last year as I couldnt stand the digital blanket it installed on my studio monitors when activated. It feel way better since.

I'm not reinstalling it but I used the mic with REW on Monday to reinstall my monitors as I just came back home on Saturday from a 6 month trip.

 

[fuzzychaos]

A lot of people are calling the u12t snake oil and such…but it got a rescommend from ASR Link it may not be great for mixing, however.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

A lot of people are calling the u12t snake oil and such…but it got a rescommend from ASR Link it may not be great for mixing, however.

Im not calling it snake oil. The only thing I’m saying is that as we speak, it doesn’t sound like something I could rely on for my mixing needs. But again, as pointed earlier on, I’m having a cable issue right now. It is very obvious so before jumping to conclusion I will try them with a cable I ordered and that will be delivered tomorrow supposedly.

 

[fuzzychaos]

Im not calling it snake oil. The only thing I’m saying is that as we speak, it doesn’t sound like something I could rely on for my mixing needs. But again, as pointed earlier on, I’m having a cable issue right now. It is very obvious so before jumping to conclusion I will try them with a cable I ordered and that will be delivered tomorrow supposedly.

Of course, I wasn’t implying you called them snake oil, others did. Someone even suggested you check ASR before, apparently not realizing they were reviewed and recommended.

If it’s a bad cable, sure, no worries. Also, I don’t think burn in is real, but I do think our hearing may need adjusted. I’ve had speakers and headphones that take me a few days to get used to the sound signature. YMMV.

Good luck, I feel your frustration.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

Of course, I wasn’t implying you called them snake oil, others did. If it’s a bad cable, sure, no worries. Also, I don’t think burn in is real, but I do think our hearing may need adjusted. I’ve had speakers and headphones that take me a few days to get used to the sound signature. YMMV.

Im totally in tune with all you just said which is why I keep underlining the fact that the sound , to me, just changed completely over night which can only be analyzed as my ear did a reset while I was sleeping and received them differently.

As much as yesterday the bass and sub were completely burying everything, today, its the complete opposite. And I dont believe those IEM's are possessed by a malefic spirit haha.

Let's just say that I now understand that I'm experiencing some sort of technical issue mixed with my ear getting used to them.

But I need to say that as much as I was uncomfortable with new monitors and headphone in the past, I never felt as disturbed as I am right now by those IEM. Never ever.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Im totally in tune with all you just said which is why I keep underlining the fact that the sound , to me, just changed completely over night which can only be analyzed as my ear did a reset while I was sleeping and received them differently.

As much as yesterday the bass and sub were completely burying everything, today, its the complete opposite. And I dont believe those IEM's are possessed by a malefic spirit haha.

Let's just say that I now understand that I'm experiencing some sort of technical issue mixed with my ear getting used to them.

But I need to say that as much as I was uncomfortable with new monitors and headphone in the past, I never felt as disturbed as I am right now by those IEM. Never ever.

I would like to suggest turning them in your ear to see if aiming them differently will yield a better top end for you. In my experience, there is a drastic difference in how they are aimed at the ear canal and its possible that you're losing a lot of high end due to this. I would go so far as to just move them around in your ear and see if you can get them fitting correctly. This is what a custom set does naturally, but the generics miss. Peoples' ear canals are so drastically different and this causes problems. You don't get these problems with over the ear headphones because they are coming from further away and bouncing off of your outer ear. Of course, this is all dependent on a properly functioning cable.
Edit: Also, try using tension on the cable to help with how they are aimed. Sometimes, this helps to hold the seal and aim the top end correctly. As I've said before, I was totally unimpressed with these when I tried the generics, but once I had them in customs and they were aimed properly I couldn't believe how good they were. I have switched over to them completely and I know many touring artists and engineers who have done the same. I can tell you know what you are talking about and you are clear about your audio experience so I'm really thinking that this is a fit or mechanical issue with them (as it was for me). The generics don't ever seal properly and rarely aim correctly.

 

[Soandso]

There's definitely something weird going on as we speak and I need to understand what it is.

Considering the inconsistency of factors you've compared in this short time maybe the adapter connectivity and even the iem responses are not the root issue to resolve. Have you considered that the piece of equipment you are plugging them into may have some technical issue?

I don't want to give the impression that I have an alternative theory about this. All I can add is that I've had several amplifiers that developed quirks under certain conditions I placed them under. For example: I recall one was related to resistors and another related to capacitors.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

Considering the inconsistency of factors you've compared in this short time maybe the adapter connectivity and even the iem responses are not the root issue to resolve. Have you considered that the piece of equipment you are plugging them into may have some technical issue?

I don't want to give the impression that I have an alternative theory about this. All I can add is that I've had several amplifiers that developed quirks under certain conditions I placed them under. For example: I recall one was related to resistors and another related to capacitors.

Yes definitely. But then I tried my other headphones and all was fine and well so definitely not a dac issue.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

I would like to suggest turning them in your ear to see if aiming them differently will yield a better top end for you. In my experience, there is a drastic difference in how they are aimed at the ear canal and its possible that you're losing a lot of high end due to this. I would go so far as to just move them around in your ear and see if you can get them fitting correctly. This is what a custom set does naturally, but the generics miss. Peoples' ear canals are so drastically different and this causes problems. You don't get these problems with over the ear headphones because they are coming from further away and bouncing off of your outer ear. Of course, this is all dependent on a properly functioning cable.
Edit: Also, try using tension on the cable to help with how they are aimed. Sometimes, this helps to hold the seal and aim the top end correctly. As I've said before, I was totally unimpressed with these when I tried the generics, but once I had them in customs and they were aimed properly I couldn't believe how good they were. I have switched over to them completely and I know many touring artists and engineers who have done the same. I can tell you know what you are talking about and you are clear about your audio experience so I'm really thinking that this is a fit or mechanical issue with them (as it was for me). The generics don't ever seal properly and rarely aim correctly.

I can rely on what you are describing. It is true that if I keep my finger on them to push them deeper in my ear canal, the sound improve by 200% in quality . I’m exaggerating but the quality and directivity is enormously better .

Sadly, if you read the thread , you’ll see that I tried emailing 64 audio asking politely for an exchange for a set of custom earphone and they told me that I would need to contact the distributor. On the distributor website , it clearly state no return no reimbursement. I sent them the link to their policies expecting an answer but they never answered me.
Today, I sent them a short resume of this first impression and that I was extremely disappointed. Again, no answer.
So far, I have all the proof to declare that the quality of their product is at the height of their customer service.
Harsh but verifiable.
And those are facts.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

64 audio U12t - Review day 2

So I was expecting to wake up and go about my day and in the afternoon try to listen to about 4 albums I know very well to try and test those and give me the chance to get used to their sound signature.

It didn’t took 30 minutes after my morning shower and coffee that I had the IEM in my ear canals but this time with a different ear tip, the big open one .

So I pulled them out of the leather puck set them up and connected them to my Universal Audio Apollo Twin-X headphone amp.

I started by listening to the album Where we come from by Popcaan. An album I must have played from beginning to end about a 100 time in my life.


“Hold on” started very smoothly and I was really not overwhelmed by the bass this time and I let it go without really paying attention. Good vibe and nothing was bothering me. I was still half asleep I guess.

Then when “Everything nice” started, I instantly noticed a lot of Air and brilliance which really caught my attention as yesterday it was completely absent.

I started to actually pay attention at that point and I instantly noticed that the overwhelming bass and sub frequencies were gone and almost nowhere to be seen like the presence was yesterday.

That got me extra confused and started playing with my gain knob on the Twin-X. Cranked it up at Party level and noticed that the bass and sub frequencies stayed very shy but that the whole mid came all the way up front. Still the mid highs stayed very polite and the presence stayed shy. No sparkle. But to be fair, it’s not something I’m after on that specific album.

I kept on paying attention and obviously brought the level back to a very conservative level to see what was up with the dynamic range that the drivers would reproduce and still, it was pretty flat. I did notice that the stereo field kind of opened and got a good chunk deeper. When “The System” synth line started I noticed that the stereo field also got a lot more defined. It was not about a laser beam centre and a full right and full left anymore. There was some contrast appearing.

When “Hustle” with Pusha T started I thought, let’s see how those IEM fair with ultra low sub frequency bass line from this bass sweep so I decided to crank it up but every single kick drum hit started to distort but not like if the driver was cramping but like if the sample itself sounded like crap. So I skipped the song confused and the same phenomena happened on “Waiting so long”.

So I decided to search for Dr Dre - Chronic 2001 and put on Still Dre and again, a weird distorted kick appeared. At the point I started to play with the cable and adapter as it made no sense whatsoever. Well, another surprise appeared, the whole centre position of the sound-stage completely disappeared leaving me with only the instrumental with a few percussion and no kick nor snare and obviously no vocals hahaha. It’s at that point I started to understand that I had a cable issue. So I played with the cable from top to bottom , left and right , front to back. Yeah, there it was , the cable was radically changing the sound width, depth but also tonal balance .

I was a bit scared that I had an issue with my headphone amp output so I connected my beloved AKG Q701 and there was no issue at all. Played with the connector to make sure it was not an output problem and nothing. Not a single creaking.

Plugged back the U12t in its full metal adapter and noticed that it was kind of loose. Not enough to pull it out without pressure but just enough to feel like I could move it through the adapter Input.

So I plugged them back to the Twin-X and played the latest Gang Starr - Family and Loyalty but also the good old Above the clouds. and they both had that weird distorting kick. If you know Gang Starr, the distorting kick sound I'm describing sound like the one in You know my steez.

At that point it was clear that I was not only experiencing some technical issue but that in all of that, my ear was getting used to the IEM’s.

I put back “Chan Chan” by Buena Vista Social Club and realized that something had clearly changed.

Same thing on “Is This Love” by Bob Marley.

No more overwhelming bass nor sub frequencies.

So for not totally ruining my experience I decided to put them aside for the rest of the day as tomorrow there’s a little Santa Claus gift coming in.
A Brand new cable from Moon Audio. Precisely, a 2 pin at 0.78 spacing terminated with a 1/4 TRS jack. So no more disgusting adapter and one less thing to worry about.

Let’s hope that tomorrow will be the day for the U12t because if they don’t start to deliver, I’ll have to start to think about asking him to resign and go back playing in the high school yard .

I still keep hope. I heard some very promising things today through all those issues.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Keith_W]

I am glad that things are working out for you.

I had issues with a cheap cable adapter once, but it caused crackling and total dropout in one channel. I have never had a cable cause problems with frequency response. Does anybody know if this is electrically possible?

I find that problems with IEM frequency response are usually due to eartip selection, insertion depth, adequate seal, and whether those damned things start slipping out my ear canals or not. This happens quite often. My usual recommendation is to get a pair of expanding foam eartips sold by Comply if your IEM's don't include them already.

 

[IAtaman]

So a guy goes and buys an expensive IEM. Does not like it. Comes to ASR, maybe to get some help, maybe to create some pressure on the vendor to give his money back, who knows. Condolences, suggestions, solutions are offered. Bash the expensive product no matter what crowd jumps on the bandwagon as well. 64Audio is shamed. Alliences are formed. We are now all rady for a happy ending. In an unexpected turn of events however, it is reveleaed that the OP refuses to EQ claiming inexplicable digital grainess. Is he a subjectivist?! Broken hearts and more drama ensues. Words are exchanged. And at the end, it turns out it was the cable after all!

Wow! What a story. You can not make this stuff up.

 

[GaryH]

Except...

This frequency response (sub-bass lacking, muddy upper-bass, severe lack of ear gain, uneven treble, big upper-treble resonances):

This awful channel matching:

This significant unit variance:

This relatively high distortion:

And this impulse and step response (inverted polarity / out of phase multi-drivers):

...would be mediocre engineering at any price. But at $2000? That's daylight robbery.

 

[Keith_W]

"Uneven channel matching" and "unit variance" are probably measurement factors rather than IEM factors.

 

[IAtaman]

Except...

This frequency response (sub-bass lacking, muddy upper-bass, severe lack of ear gain, uneven treble, big upper-treble resonances):

Ha! Yes, that is it, that latent "Anakin-ean" dislike presented with graphs to make it look like it is objective, that is what I am talking about.

For the IEM, I have no opinion either way and coudn't care less. I am hoping the eartip and cable issues end up solving the problem for the OP, and he likes the product he bought though. What are you hoping for?

 

[GaryH]

That people stop desperately trying to make excuses for clearly mediocre rip-off 'TOTL' IEMs in order to satisfy their pricing bias and post-purchase rationalization.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

I am glad that things are working out for you.

I had issues with a cheap cable adapter once, but it caused crackling and total dropout in one channel. I have never had a cable cause problems with frequency response. Does anybody know if this is electrically possible?

Great question you got there.

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This is something that happen quite often in a studio session which is why we learn to properly gain stage before dialing our parameters. Without proper power feed to any hardware we use for compression , eq etc… distortion and unevenness can and will occur to certain extent.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

Except...

This frequency response (sub-bass lacking, muddy upper-bass, severe lack of ear gain, uneven treble, big upper-treble resonances):

View attachment 276130

This awful channel matching:

View attachment 276131

This significant unit variance:

View attachment 276132

This relatively high distortion:

And this impulse and step response (inverted polarity / out of phase multi-drivers):

View attachment 276135

View attachment 276134

...would be mediocre engineering at any price. But at $2000? That's daylight robbery.

I can only agree with you .

I should have stayed in the professional boundaries of monitoring solutions.

This adventure in Lala land really showed me all that could go wrong will probably go wrong and if you have any issues, unlike the professional market, you will be left dry by the manufacturer.

The price point was not an issue for me as I had very valid reasons to invest in a serious toolset but sadly, this whole IEM thingy might just still be quite a few years behind our professional monitoring solutions in terms of sound quality, neutrality and details.

At that price point, we have a few very useful headphones that are used regularly by many M.E. for different mixing purposes.

But not all hope is lost yet. Will see if the cable can fix the distortion issue im experiencing and feed them the power they need. Hopefully, underpowering them like that didn’t damage any of the drivers. I know I couldn’t rationally do that with any of my studio monitors without knowing that something got damaged along the way. But those consumer grade product might probably have higher tolerances to lower the costs of the manufacturers fees.

 

[Jeromeof]

One thing I am wondering, is did you expect the u12t to sound similar to your AKG Q701 (that you mentioned a few times) as it won't - it has a very different FR.

e.g. the rolled off bass.

While the u12t doesn't roll off the bass, and has 2 treble dips (at about 3Khz and 8Khz) - just where the Q701 would have peaks:

So without EQ (which we all know you don't want to apply) - it will sound very different IMO.