ban25
Addicted to Fun and Learning
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2022
- Messages
- 754
- Likes
- 747
That was before the acquisition by VOXX International.Haven't they before? just one line from Pio, at least, SC-LXxx models. Have no history of Onky tho.
That was before the acquisition by VOXX International.Haven't they before? just one line from Pio, at least, SC-LXxx models. Have no history of Onky tho.
And the third-shoe drops...save $200 over the Pioneer and $400 over the Integra if you don't need balanced pre-outs.Just found this on Google
Onkyo Previews New Flagship AV Receiver
Onkyo today announced plans to bring a new flagship 11.2-channel AV receiver to market this spring. Following on the heels of the Pioneer flagship AVR announced a couple weeks ago, the Onkyo TX-RZ70 was “developed from scratch” under a collaboration between Onkyo Japan and Premium Audio Company...www.soundandvision.com
$200 difference with Pioneer doesn’t make sense at all. And it’s no where near Denon 3800 price! Onkyo at 2800 is hard to swallow, but I guess this is 2023 and inflation when you let corporations profit the most but tax the hell of the middle class folks.And the third-shoe drops...save $200 over the Pioneer and $400 over the Integra if you don't need balanced pre-outs.
Strongly agree: the price-for-features comparison to the Denon AVR-X3800H is really poor here. Two channels of amplification (especially at or above the quality built into a multi-channel AVR) does not even remotely justify the price jump here. It's not even a justifiable price jump compared to the RZ-50, in my opinion.$200 difference with Pioneer doesn’t make sense at all. And it’s no where near Denon 3800 price! Onkyo at 2800 is hard to swallow, but I guess this is 2023 and inflation when you let corporations profit the most but tax the hell of the middle class folks.
It all comes down to me and you my friend. If consumers react strongly to the new prices and don’t buy, like what happened to Denon 3800, halfway through the year we will see sales start to pour in. If manufacturers speculation is right, and market buys these like hot candies, then this is becoming the new norm for half decent AVRs’ prices.Strongly agree: the price-for-features comparison to the Denon AVR-X3800H is really poor here. Two channels of amplification (especially at or above the quality built into a multi-channel AVR) does not even remotely justify the price jump here. It's not even a justifiable price jump compared to the RZ-50, in my opinion.
The only AVR/AVP's with both Audyssey and Dirac are Denon and Marantz...I'm wondering if there will be a RZ90 announcement. I was hoping the RZ70 would follow the specs of Pioneer new ELITE Flagship VSX LX805 11.4 8K AV Receiver vs Integra DRX-8.4, in regards XLR outputs and 1 XLR input. Also, having 4 subwoofer preouts (only 2 discrete) and 11x150 watts per channel. Personally, I'd rather pay the extra $200 for these features. I love that they are including Dirac Live Room Correction Full Bandwidth.
Personally, I would prefer an Onkyo because of both Auddessy and Dirac live, as I would take advantage of using dynamic eq and dynamic volume and being able to save user presets with either dirac or audyssey. Does anyone know if that can be done with the Pioneer, Onkyo Integra models? I know Denon and Marantz allow you to save presets.
I'm not familiar with Pioneer MCACC, I assume it's probably not as good as auddessy?
A couple of things...And the third-shoe drops...save $200 over the Pioneer and $400 over the Integra if you don't need balanced pre-outs.
This is marketing and market segmentation.... the difference in price between the brands will most likely be different in Europe, Asia and Oceania....$200 difference with Pioneer doesn’t make sense at all. And it’s no where near Denon 3800 price! Onkyo at 2800 is hard to swallow, but I guess this is 2023 and inflation when you let corporations profit the most but tax the hell of the middle class folks.
How do you justify 75% price increase over RZ50? Inflation is not that high! Even Denon didn’t have that much jump compared to these guys. 3800 was like 45% and I still think it was high and the sales support that fact since they offered discounts.This is marketing and market segmentation.... the difference in price between the brands will most likely be different in Europe, Asia and Oceania....
Flagship/halo products are never a good value proposition, and value tends to diminish as you go up the product line. The RZ-50, at $1300, is a hell of a bargain! For those of us who are interested in DLBC and Roon Ready transport, the DRX 8.4/LX-805/RZ70 are a no brainer.How do you justify 75% price increase over RZ50? Inflation is not that high! Even Denon didn’t have that much jump compared to these guys. 3800 was like 45% and I still think it was high and the sales support that fact since they offered discounts.
It remains to be seen how many units they can sell to “those like you” then. My prediction is not too many.Flagship/halo products are never a good value proposition, and value tends to diminish as you go up the product line. The RZ-50, at $1300, is a hell of a bargain! For those of us who are interested in DLBC and Roon Ready transport, the DRX 8.4/LX-805/RZ70 are a no brainer.
How do you justify 75% price increase over RZ50? Inflation is not that high! Even Denon didn’t have that much jump compared to these guys. 3800 was like 45% and I still think it was high and the sales support that fact since they offered discounts.
Hence why flagship products always sell in much more limited quantities!It remains to be seen how many units they can sell to “those like you” then. My prediction is not too many.
The problem with the price is not beefier power amp section. I bet the RZ90 comes close to this or even surpass this without power amps since it has all the XLR ports.Hence why flagship products always sell in much more limited quantities!
Many of us will be waiting to see these measured on Amir's bench.
I actually think moving up-market is the only chance these AV component brands have to survive. The low-end is quickly becoming the domain of sound bars and cheap wireless speakers that end up in the landfill after a few years.It remains to be seen how many units they can sell to “those like you” then. My prediction is not too many.
The sound bar people are those same demographic who bought those home theater in a box a decade or two ago with those tiny satellite speakers. After throwing out a couple in the trash, they will come back to the real world!I actually think moving up-market is the only chance these AV component brands have to survive. The low-end is quickly becoming the domain of sound bars and cheap wireless speakers that end up in the landfill after a few years.
I’m a long term lurker and big fan of PiOnkyo - the RZ-70/LX805 seem the 2023 equivalents of the Denon 6500H and Marantz Cinema 40, certainly not the Denon x3800H. The Cinema 40, at $3500 has fewer amplified channels and less power. The Denon 6500H has a single 4K/120fps input and no Dirac etc.At this stage I am guessing based on the look in the pictures and the outline of Specs we have been provided...
But it seems to me that the power amp stages are substantially different here - we appear to have a transformer that is two or 3 times the size of that in the RZ50 - and probably matching capacitors...
We have apparently robust massive heatsinks (with enough mass to them to be able to have some thermal inertia, and leverage at least some passive cooling before triggering the fans)
In amplification terms, the RZ50 amp circuits are adequate - but their power supply isn't - so they are likely to get into trouble with low impedance speakers (ie: when high current is required).
In pricing terms - the new AVR's are not that far off where the flagships of 2008 to 2014 used to be - and those were all high current capable AVR's with substantial transformers and capacitor reserves... and they were HEAVY (as these ones are).
Those classics of "yore" handled my difficult speakers just fine - the current Integra 3.4 doesn't (and I expect that the RZ50 probably wouldn't either!) - the RZ70/LX805/8.4 - appear to have the goods to be able to handle speakers that require high current.
What price a high current power amp? High current capable amps tend to be expensive... the US$1400 raise in price over the RZ50 seems reasonable if you need an amp of that kind.
And with DLBC capability (that too is worth something) - and the potential for future DL-ART upgrade... (I hope!) - and then there is the addition of Auro3D.
It certainly isn't cheap... and there are plenty of setups where the value option will be at the RZ50 or NR7100 level.
Right now I personally am using an Integra DRX 3.4 (I am not yet using all its 9 channels... but soon!)- and acknowledging it's achilles heel - the power amps, - have fitted it with a pair of very very muscular Crown external amps....
Will I rush out and buy an RZ70 now - no, not immediately - I want to see some measurements first, see how it handles difficult speakers (preferably 2 ohm loads!) - see how hot it runs... and I would very very much like to hear that DL-ART will be available for it.
Will I go down that path sometime in 2024.... that is reasonably likely I think - it would be nice to be able to simplify my home setup, and put the crowns back in storage (or perhaps sell them and recoup some of the upgrade costs!)