The bass is..... the place.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

That's because in many cases there really isn't any. (Bass below 40 Hz in the track.)

Agreed. The bottom octave from 20-40Hz is seldom needed for music. There is usually not much there even for full scale orchestral music. But, there are still a number of octaves that are quite important above that containing a lot of energy that we still consider part of the "bass".

Given an either/or choice between a system that is smooth, dynamic and low distortion but limited to 40Hz vs. another that is peaky but extends to 20Hz, I would choose the former. I think most listeners would agree. But, a system that extends smoothly and dynamically with low distortion to 20Hz is very nice to have for those rare occasions where music goes down there. And, it is doable.

 

[Thomas savage]

Agreed. The bottom octave from 20-40Hz is seldom needed for music. There is usually not much there even for full scale orchestral music. But, there are still a number of octaves that are quite important above that containing a lot of energy that we still consider part of the "bass".

Given an either/or choice between a system that is smooth, dynamic and low distortion but limited to 40Hz vs. another that is peaky but extends to 20Hz, I would choose the former. I think most listeners would agree. But, a system that extends smoothly and dynamically with low distortion to 20Hz is very nice to have for those rare occasions where music goes down there. And, it is doable.

Loads of my music has content below 40hz... plenty of electronica does and not just the odd note now and then but loud and regular beats. It stretches my woofers like crazy, and yes I have indeed had some of it measured as I was experiencing some issues with driver reliability but no I don't have the results to hand.

If you want to look up this,

Lo-fang ' blue film' you can all measure yourselves

Also a lot of modern recordings have surprisingly high levels of low content, even plain female vocals that have that Scandinavian production signature.

Thinking ane burn, bjork and possibly London gramma to name but a few...

 

[Sal1950]

Exactly, during the process of ripping my CD collection; near every one was chopped below 50hz ...

?? TBone, are you saying your ripping software was removing info below 50hz that was on the CD? I'm confused.

 

[TBone]

Sal, just ripped this ELO CD recently ... freq typical of most CD within my collection. (no digital intervention)

 

[Sal1950]

Sal, just ripped this ELO CD recently ... freq typical of most CD within my collection. (no digital intervention)

I think we're mis-understanding each other.
I'm asking it the content of the rip is different that the CD.
It shouldn't be?

 

[TBone]

rips are EAC exact to disk, hence (no digital intervention).

another very recent example, frustrated b/c my Eagle's CD / LP's tend to sound too bass heavy within my system. The Steve Hoffmans site has threads concerning this very issue, as they apply to his DCC mastered versions. So I found a DCC copy; hoping it would tame the lower freq.

My remastered GH CD; song#1: Take it Easy.

DCC version ...

Hoffman "cut" the lower end further. Still, not the quality of bass I prefer, but indeed "better" ...

 

[Sal1950]

rips are EAC exact to disk, hence (no digital intervention).
...

Thanks, now the lights went on.

 

[RayDunzl]

Here's a Pipe organ piece - Arvo Part - Music for Pipe Organ Track 1 (actually it is Einojuhani Rautavaara Tocatta Op. 59)

Look at all those distinct notes (and harmonics)

frustrated b/c my Eagle's CD / LP's tend to sound too bass heavy within my system.

What corrective measures are you able to apply within your system? I've moved past occasional bass blur with a little measurement and DRC. Things "sound" right whether or not they are prerfect. I feel I got rid of the objectional sounds.

From disc or file:

Nirvana Nevermind first track MFSL version: steep roll off below 30Hz

Dark Side of the Moon (MFSL) first tune, rolls below 30Hz.

Daft Punk - Lose Your Life to Dance

They're all different, mastering choices... Is there anything there that really contributes, or not...

 

[TBone]

What corrective measures are you able to apply within your system?

Volume control.

I've nearly every pressing of DSOTM(*), inc early Japanese versions and MFSL LP/CDs ... IIRC, they all have similar bass characteristics w/extended lows. If memory serves, WYWH is the same, however the typical 50hz chopping was evident w/Animals, The Wall and Final Cut.

(*) sadly, Us & Them is compressed on all.

 

[RayDunzl]

however the typical 50hz chopping was evident w/Animals, The Wall and Final Cut.

Final Cut, track 1:

 

[TBone]

yes, checked my Final Cut CD, same ... I might have been thinking the LP rip, which I'll try to find and post later ...

 

[TBone]

Pink roots ...

RWaters Amused to Death CD t#1...

DGilmour 1st ST CD t#1 ...

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Loads of my music has content below 40hz... plenty of electronica does and not just the odd note now and then but loud and regular beats. It stretches my woofers like crazy, and yes I have indeed had some of it measured as I was experiencing some issues with driver reliability but no I don't have the results to hand.

If you want to look up this,

Lo-fang ' blue film' you can all measure yourselves

Also a lot of modern recordings have surprisingly high levels of low content, even plain female vocals that have that Scandinavian production signature.

Thinking ane burn, bjork and possibly London gramma to name but a few...

Yes, of course. And, most people are content to hear the first harmonic at twice the fundamental frequency, plus the higher harmonics of deep bass notes, all the while thinking they are getting great, deep bass. But, resolving that and delivering the true fundamental tone along with the harmonics is a far greater pleasure. Many do not know what they are missing. Some do not care.

 

[RayDunzl]

Roger Waters Amused to Death, in-room here:

Top line is 1/3 octave room response, red is peak, black is instant. I have added a little bump at the lowest end (Fletcher Munson adjustment experiment for the lowish levels at which I listen), and there's a hole at 50Hz at the listening position which doesn't register at my ears as a problem.

So, to me, there's plenty of low end in that recording when it is called for. Seems nicely balanced to me. Low bass makes itself known when it is there.

 

[Don Hills]

I mostly listen to listen to prog, hard rock and metal from the Beatles era to the present day. There's not a lot of older music of the period with useful content below 40 Hz, which is as low as a 4 string bass guitar goes. Kick drum can often go lower, but the "kick" in the sound comes from the higher frequencies, 60 to 80 Hz or so. Musicians have started using 5 and 6 string basses, going down to 30 Hz, and using drop tunings, so there is some gold to be found in the lowest frequencies these days.

Older music production usually used an analogue high-pass filter to cut off studio rumble etc, and the LP cutting process often applied additional filtering. These filters often had gentle enough slopes that some of the low bass remained. I find most modern music uses digital filters with very steep cutoff - the level "drops off a cliff" below the cutoff.

Here is 30 seconds from Supertramp's "If Everyone Was Listening," comparing the original A&M CD and the 2014 remaster. Two things stand out:

1) There is nothing at all below 40 Hz.

2) The difference between 80s analogue high-pass filtering and modern digital filtering.

Original:

Remaster:

 

[RayDunzl]

There's not a lot of older music of the period with useful content below 40 Hz, which is as low as a 4 string bass guitar goes.

Yeah, I'd think some folks are imagining they're missing something that's was just never there.

Having said that, decent reproduction of the lows is a good thing.

 

[TBone]

Funny you should mention Supertramp, recently been searching for their early AM+ series to augment my collection.

MFSL CD version of same track (7)...

 

[TBone]

Roger Waters Amused to Death, in-room here:

Top line is 1/3 octave room response, red is peak, black is instant. I have added a little bump at the lowest end (Fletcher Munson adjustment experiment for the lowish levels at which I listen), and there's a hole at 50Hz at the listening position which doesn't register at my ears as a problem.

So, to me, there's plenty of low end in that recording when it is called for. Seems nicely balanced to me. Low bass makes itself known when it is there.

Pretty impressive Ray ... did you apply eq to the higher frequencies?

 

[RayDunzl]

Pretty impressive Ray ... did you apply eq to the higher frequencies?

AcourateDRC - sort of an AcourateLite, usable only with the OpenDRC line of miniDSP products, applies biquads to the lower frequencies (lower L/R lines), and contributes to the overall curve of the uppers, and applies FIR filters (upper L/R lines) to frequencies starting around the upper bass.

Combine these to see what it did to me on that run:

You can defeat the FIR or the biquads (individually) at the miniDSP if you like. I don't.

My assessment, despite the apparent vigor with which it modifies the frequency response of the signal, is that it just "cleans things up a little", it doesn't come across like some wild EQ you might apply manually that is instantly honking noticeable.

 

[TBone]

Don, others ...

may I enquire what version of Audacity you're using (above) ... curious because the latest version screen-shot function didn't work with my computer/W10, reverted back to older version. Wondered if perhaps it was a setup issue, or an early bug since fixed?