SMSL C200 Mac problems

[bbrown]

New user here. I've searched this site so I'm assuming this problem unique to me. I was really excited to receive this unit. I have 3 inputs (Mac mini M2/USB, PC Laptop/BT, set top box/toslink) with a set of powered Mackie studio monitors with balanced inputs. Everything connected fine and sounds great. The problem is with the USB input when connected to Apple Mac's. When using Mac USB, every time a sound is received by the DAC there's a soft clicking/popping sound, then a delay of about 200 millisecond before any audio is heard through the line out or head phones. Once the audio stops there's another clicking/popping sound. The sound is similar to changing inputs. It's almost sounds like something is turning on internally when it receives audio and turns off once the audio stops. This repeats for any sound (e.g. alerts, sound effects, music track, video, etc.) The delay is truncating the audio output to the point where audio is missing at the start of an audio track or a short audio alert from the OS is completely missing. I've tried changing the gain, filters, DPLL and USB mode and a reset. Nothing helps. It's so annoying the C200 DAC on USB Mac it’s unusable. I've tried it on 2 different Mac computers (2009 Mac Pro, 2023 Mac mini M2). Works fine on a PC with USB. The USB Avid MBox this is replacing doesn't have this problem on the Mac's. Any help would be appreciated. I'd rather not have to return this.

 

[SiW]

There is another thread about this as it’s the XMOS. Do you have optical out on the Mac?

 

[bbrown]

Thank you SiW! I’m upgrading from a old Mac Pro to a Mac mini M2 pro which doesn’t have an optical out. Now that I know what to search for, I see that it’s a XMOS issue. The XMOS “pseudo sleep” mode with USB on Macs is the problem. I see there’s fix to turn this off on PCs by setting the driver to be “always on” but don’t see a fix for Macs. Too bad because otherwise this C200 is exactly what I was looking for. If I can’t find a fix I guess I’ll have to return it.

 

[SiW]

Could try a usb to optical bridge like a SMSL PO100? Assuming Bluetooth isn’t an option from your Mac.

 

[Snoopy]

Thank you SiW! I’m upgrading from an old Mac Pro to a Mac mini M2 pro which doesn’t have an optical out. Now that I know what to search for, I see that it’s a XMOS issue. The XMOS “pseudo sleep” mode with USB on Macs is the problem. I see there’s fix to turn this off on PCs by setting the driver to be “always on” but don’t see a fix for Macs. Too bad because otherwise this C200 is exactly what I was looking for. If I can’t find a fix I guess I’ll have to return it.

Just use an app like one switch or Amphetamin to prevent the Mac from sleeping.

or. sudo pmset disablesleep 1

the cpu will still clock down to save power

 

[bbrown]

Just use an app like one switch or Amphetamin to prevent the Mac from sleeping.

or. sudo pmset disablesleep 1

the cpu will still clock down to save power

It's not an issue with the Mac sleeping, it's an issue with the USB XMOS DAC input sleeping.

 

[bbrown]

Well, I heard back from the reseller (Aoshida HiFi-US). "The SMSL factory said that this is a normal phenomenon, not a product problem, please don't worry. Mute's time is normal. As long as the sampling rate is changed, there will be. If it changes to 0, there will be impact sound. Please feel free to use it. Judy(Aoshida hifi)"

Based on the broken English, I can't tell if what they are saying here is if the OS is changing the sampling rate to zero during no audio, then this will happen. But I'm not sure that's the case. With USB selected the display always reads 44.1 even during no audio. I guess the only way to trouble shoot this would be to connect an USB protocol analyzer and see the differences of the behavior between Windows and MacOS. I don't really have the time or patience to do this. I guess I'll keep buying and returning units until I find one that works.

 

[DarrylG]

Well, I heard back from the reseller (Aoshida HiFi-US). "The SMSL factory said that this is a normal phenomenon, not a product problem, please don't worry. Mute's time is normal. As long as the sampling rate is changed, there will be. If it changes to 0, there will be impact sound. Please feel free to use it. Judy(Aoshida hifi)"

Based on the broken English, I can't tell if what they are saying here is if the OS is changing the sampling rate to zero during no audio, then this will happen. But I'm not sure that's the case. With USB selected the display always reads 44.1 even during no audio. I guess the only way to trouble shoot this would be to connect an USB protocol analyzer and see the differences of the behavior between Windows and MacOS. I don't really have the time or patience to do this. I guess I'll keep buying and returning units until I find one that works.

Because they seem to be saying it's not a USB problem, have you tried it with a bluetooth source to see whether or not the clicks persist?

 

[DavidM1]

Well, I heard back from the reseller (Aoshida HiFi-US). "The SMSL factory said that this is a normal phenomenon, not a product problem, please don't worry. Mute's time is normal. As long as the sampling rate is changed, there will be. If it changes to 0, there will be impact sound. Please feel free to use it. Judy(Aoshida hifi)"

Based on the broken English, I can't tell if what they are saying here is if the OS is changing the sampling rate to zero during no audio, then this will happen. But I'm not sure that's the case. With USB selected the display always reads 44.1 even during no audio. I guess the only way to trouble shoot this would be to connect an USB protocol analyzer and see the differences of the behavior between Windows and MacOS. I don't really have the time or patience to do this. I guess I'll keep buying and returning units until I find one that works.

I've just read this thread and it is unnerving because I have a C200 on order and ours is a Mac household. To be clear, does this happen on every track of, say, an album being streamed? Would you lose the first sound after each gap due to the lag that Aoshida says is normal? Or, is it just at that point where the sampling rate changes, which I imagine might be a serious concern when listening to playlists with different recordings. Does it happen only connected to a laptop or does it also happen if connected via USB to iPhone or iPad (if you happen to know)? Sorry to hear it has been an issue. I wonder if other Mac users are having the same experience with USB into the C200?

 

[Snoopy]

Just use Crossfade of a few milliseconds. And there is no gap. And adjust the resync delay to a minimum.

Sampling rate changes = upsample everything to the same sampling-rate.


That's what I'm doing in roon. I have zero clicks, pops, crackling sounds or drop outs.
Even when I stop the music or change between tracks (local and streaming).

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I've personally never had this issue, but you might want to try following the tutorial here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...os-driver-settings-for-no-cutoff-delay.25838/
Edit: This tutorial is for windows PCs. I'm not sure how much help it'll be. Maybe a Mac user can translate the instructions for macos

 

[DavidM1]

Just use Crossfade of a few milliseconds. And there is no gap. And adjust the resync delay to a minimum.

Sampling rate changes = upsample everything to the same sampling-rate.


That's what I'm doing in roon. I have zero clicks, pops, crackling sounds or drop outs.
Even when I stop the music or change between tracks (local and streaming).

Thanks for your crossfade idea. I'm mainly using Apple Music to either stream or play music via Airplay II, mainly from a Mac Mini on the wifi network. The minimum crossfade of 1 second that is available on the playback settings might be the solution. I've just listened to a couple of tracks and a 1 second crossfade is hardly detectable. If I have this problem when the DAC arrives then it will be the first thing I'll try.

How do I adjust the resync delay? Is this a Mac possibility or is it an option in Roon?

 

[DavidM1]

I've personally never had this issue, but you might want to try following the tutorial here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...os-driver-settings-for-no-cutoff-delay.25838/
Edit: This tutorial is for windows PCs. I'm not sure how much help it'll be. Maybe a Mac user can translate the instructions for macos

Thanks. Mac and Linux require no drivers so I don't know if we are able to make use of this info.

 

[Snoopy]

Thanks for your crossfade idea. I'm mainly using Apple Music to either stream or play music via Airplay II, mainly from a Mac Mini on the wifi network. The minimum crossfade of 1 second that is available on the playback settings might be the solution. I've just listened to a couple of tracks and a 1 second crossfade is hardly detectable. If I have this problem when the DAC arrives then it will be the first thing I'll try.

How do I adjust the resync delay? Is this a Mac possibility or is it an option in Roon?

I do that in roon.
0 seconds Crossfade works for me as well.


I stopped music for a few minutes and resumed playback.. no problems at all.

My MacBook is awake all the time (amphetamine app)

 

[Wekhrlin]

Same clicking problem here. Youtube with Firefox is a particular nightmare: In FF the clicks (there are two clicks when disabling and two more when waking the device) are audible immediately after stopping or jumping on the timeline. With Safari (which I don't normally use) there is the pause of 5 seconds before the device goes to sleep (like in iTunes).
The C200 is a great device and it can do everything I wanted it to do. It's just that clicking sound that is annoying as...

 

[bbrown]

I've just read this thread and it is unnerving because I have a C200 on order and ours is a Mac household. To be clear, does this happen on every track of, say, an album being streamed? Would you lose the first sound after each gap due to the lag that Aoshida says is normal? Or, is it just at that point where the sampling rate changes, which I imagine might be a serious concern when listening to playlists with different recordings. Does it happen only connected to a laptop or does it also happen if connected via USB to iPhone or iPad (if you happen to know)? Sorry to hear it has been an issue. I wonder if other Mac users are having the same experience with USB into the C200?

Yes the ~250ms delay happens on every audio transition. For example if you go into System Setting -> Sound -> Alert sound and press the button to invoke the sound you'll hear the delay clicks and only a portion of the sound. If you press the button fast enough you'll hear the sound every press. Wait ~250ms and the delay happens again. It happens for system event sounds and Music tracks, Youtube audio, embed HTML audio, etc. Every audio invocation. I only play local library tracts and don't stream so I don't know about that. I didn't try it with an iPhone or iPad. The issue with the sample rate going to zero I don't really understand if that happens after ~250ms of idle time. The display shows 44.1 even when idle. This isn't a problem on the the other digital in's (toslink, spdif, BT). It also isn't a problem with UISB on a PC laptop I tested, so it may be a Mac only issue. The reseller isn't very happy with my negative review. I'd be willing to change it or remove it if they at least made an effort with SMSL to acknowledge that it's a real problem and work towards a fix. SMSL still insists this is normal behavior.

 

[bbrown]

Just use Crossfade of a few milliseconds. And there is no gap. And adjust the resync delay to a minimum.

Sampling rate changes = upsample everything to the same sampling-rate.


That's what I'm doing in roon. I have zero clicks, pops, crackling sounds or drop outs.
Even when I stop the music or change between tracks (local and streaming).

The crossfades is a great idea if I only used the C200 for music listening. Unfortunately I want to use the C200 as my main audio out for my Mac mini, in addition to listing to music.

 

[SiW]

The crossfades is a great idea if I only used the C200 for music listening. Unfortunately I want to use the C200 as my main audio out for my Mac mini, in addition to listing to music.

Does it do this if you use the optical out from the Mac?

 

[bbrown]

Same clicking problem here. Youtube with Firefox is a particular nightmare: In FF the clicks (there are two clicks when disabling and two more when waking the device) are audible immediately after stopping or jumping on the timeline. With Safari (which I don't normally use) there is the pause of 5 seconds before the device goes to sleep (like in iTunes).
The C200 is a great device and it can do everything I wanted it to do. It's just that clicking sound that is annoying as...

This is it exactly. Too bad. I really like the C200 and it did everything I needed it to, but this issue, IMO makes it unusable for Macs.

 

[Wekhrlin]

Does it do this if you use the optical out from the Mac?

Unfortunately, the current Mac minis no longer have an optical output.