Thanks for this clear and detailed explanation.
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Kef blade 2 meta frequency response
- Thread starter dogmamann
- Start date
That’s where people’s subjectivity has to come into it. You have to have your own preference for your own slope in room. In my opinion the blade would be way nicer to listen to all day. The Genelecs would certainly sound more detailed and more “lean-in” but would get tiring, as studio marketed monitors tend to do.
There’s no perfect estimated in room response slope. Slope.
- Thread Starter
- #23
Yes for the people who prefers a darker tonality than absolute neutral presentation with perfect imaging with the penality of a narrower soundstage than a non coaxial speaker.
There is a high chance that, people would easily just choose something else over this even something like kh150 if absolute transparency is the goal.
- Thread Starter
- #24
Kefs cannot produce the cymbals exactly like how they are in the recording unless you eq it up. Agreed it’s pleasant, but then again it’s not how it is in the recording.
Most folks who end up buying these won’t care about eqing. As per this logic, there are 1000s of “pleasant” sounding speakers in this world each of them thinking this is how I make my speakers fatigue free.
Good thing is Kef can be eqed, but most others cannot be.
I think that response looks awesome. This is very close to how we voice our speakers, and it doesn't sound dark in-room, it sounds natural and right. I'm pretty sure Kef knew exactly what they were doing when voicing this.
I prefer speakers be anechoically flat since I think that's the best starting point, but I don't think Kef's slightly tilted curves are that offensive. It's resonances and variations that are a problem, an other-wise flat curve that has a manufacturer-chosen tilt to it is not the end of the world. Even Revels often have slightly boosted mid-bass.
Also, Kef has only done this on the Blades and LS60. The LS50 and the R-series are not tilted like this, they're flat(with a little bit of a low-bass hole to compensate for European rooms I think). So it's possible they have some directivity-related reason for it.
Either way though, you have to be able to EQ general tonality, because of the circle of confusion. It's literally, 100% impossible for any speaker to have its overall tonality be perfect for all possible content you might play on it. So if you can't EQ then you're going to be screwed at least some of the time.
Also, Kef has only done this on the Blades and LS60. The LS50 and the R-series are not tilted like this, they're flat(with a little bit of a low-bass hole to compensate for European rooms I think). So it's possible they have some directivity-related reason for it.
Either way though, you have to be able to EQ general tonality, because of the circle of confusion. It's literally, 100% impossible for any speaker to have its overall tonality be perfect for all possible content you might play on it. So if you can't EQ then you're going to be screwed at least some of the time.
With a high or low directivity index though?
Wide dispersion or narrow dispersion?
If you have a speaker that is very wide dispersion, say the philharmonic BMRs, I guarantee you you don't want the on axis to be flat, especially if you're listening in a room with hardwood polished floors, bare walls and ceilings and very little furniture.
You should think about the room before the speaker. Right I'm done derailing this thread
- Thread Starter
- #28
Again, it’s not “neutral”, And agreed KEF knew it would sound “easy” on ears. Cymbals should sound a bit harsh, on kefs it’s nice easy, you hear them with tiny nuances but that shimmer, glare it’s not there. Some records have already given thought of this and they make it smooth in those recordings itself. Those recordings would sound extra dull on kefs. as people grow old, their high frequency hearing gets bad and then it becomes even dull.
But like I mentioned earlier it’s equable, but I wonder what kind of filter do we need to fix an entire tilt to the right.
- Thread Starter
- #29
Similarly in a good less reflecting room, you don’t need a speaker which is dull reproducing cymbals. Many folks want to hear that air, want it to shimmer, flash when a cymbal is hit.
So there is no one right way. I wonder what is the tuning of the muons.
How do you know how the cymbals in the recording should sound?
Keith
- Thread Starter
- #31
By that logic, you can listen to any 20 dollar speaker assuming that’s how it’s there in that recording.
Where did you get the idea that BMRs are tilted? Cause.they aren't.
Not sure who this weird ass rant is aimed at either. Maybe you want someone else, because nothing you wrote pertains to me.
The spinorama site has EQ for the Blade Two Metas to give you an idea.
EQ for KEF Blade 2 Meta computed from Vendors-KEF data
Generated from http://github.com/pierreaubert/spinorama/generate_peqs.py v0.18
Dated: 2023-01-03-23:26:04
Preamp: -1.7 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 199 Hz Gain -1.24 dB Q 0.22
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 6077 Hz Gain +1.49 dB Q 0.36
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 835 Hz Gain -0.50 dB Q 2.93
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 176 Hz Gain +0.69 dB Q 2.95
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 454 Hz Gain +0.57 dB Q 2.90
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 243 Hz Gain -0.54 dB Q 2.88
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain -0.50 dB Q 0.29
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 208 Hz Gain +0.55 dB Q 0.91
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 1681 Hz Gain +0.50 dB Q 2.95
Where do I say the BMR's are tilted? Sorry, I wasn't meant to be ranting at you; it was meant to be aimed at the reader. (Replace "you have" with "one was to")
I say the BMR has wide dispersion. It is not tilted, you are correct. But if you have a wide dispersion speaker like the BMR's - I would suggest one has a heavily damped room or very far away side walls.
For sure - theres another factor in the in-room tilt preference factors. The listeners hearing ability (and/or age).
Technically the issue is not due to measurement technique but rather the lack of measurement technique
I think you are expecting to understand more than is possible from a graph. You can not "see" by the graph alone whether the speaker will sound bright, dark or just right. (talking about moderate deviations like the speaker in question). I have not heard the Blade 2, so I don't know if it sounds neutral or slightly dark.
We can also speculate that Kef has made some assumptions around the fact that most rooms someone would put the Blade 2 in, likely wouldn't be small with 80s style decoration with lots of furniture and wall-to-wall carpet. On the contrary it is likely to be relatively large, with minimal decoration with numerous hard surfaces. So it would make sense to give the speaker the highest likelyhood of sounding good in the environment it's most likely to be played in.
And what is "neutral"? The in-room tilt that sounds best will not be the same in all rooms. It's a pretty widespread understanding in the industry that anechoically flat is neutral and therefore the only thing that could be thought of as accurate and correct. While I'm not directly contesting that, we also know that especially the 100-300hz area suffers from several and often wide dips in the majority of rooms, due to reflections that are not present in an anechoic chamber. A subtle reinforcement of this range sounds better, fuller and more accurate in all the rooms we've tested and across a wide range of music.
Just use shelf filters with low Q value. It works as a precise tone control.
- Thread Starter
- #39
do you mean this tuning is then intentional ?
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That graph does not show an accurate representation of the bass/midbass, as has been explained to you earlier in this thread?
Refer to the measurements from Kef that are likely to be accurate. The blue (on axis) shows 2khz to be maybe 1.5dB down from 100hz? Yes, that is likely intentional and is not likely to sound very dark at all in a typical listening room.
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