Audiogon thread critical of ASR

[DMill]

This is my first post here.

You certainly have passion. And you make some points. I’m not going to try and tackle any of them. My advice would be to relax a bit. I think if you can make smart, objective posts here and be respectful of others you’ll be just fine.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Bad moderators can ruin a forum. A couple of bad ones who punish people who don’t agree with their worldview on DIYAudio. Yet but not when a member goes into a series of posts at a level of psychotic abuse against someone… me for my crime of using first-order crossovers. And after a couple of years here I go back there once in awhile only to be amazed at the level of woo there as well.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I believe he said that is what happened. Several others joined in to say the same thing.

This is my first post here. I was banned at a few spots because of opposing views, not on the science or the lack of it. I was banned for
calling shady practices what they were "SHADY"

I couldn't figure how or why people were being banned on AG. Then I did. There wasn't a reason, just ONE horrible moderator. They only have
one person running the forums and most of the sales. SHE has removed whole threads and enough post to fill ALL the libraries of congress 5 times.

A quote from her "We like a spirited debate". When I joined AG under Diepiolet they lost my information. I think I was member # 201.
They lost ALL my information in 2015. I contacted them/her 15 time and NEVER got a resolution or my old name back. I had a "good rating" that
is where the story gets strange. I had to reregister and I did under OldHvyMec.

I noticed everybody that sold on AG was 100% or 0% but NO BAD RATINGS or bad reviews. I'll leave it there.

Then I noticed the same cover up, the same BS and the same "shut the thread" mentality at WBF. The crap I read there.
I called Viking Acoustic on ripping a person off. I didn't start the thread, I just called a rip of a rip off and told Tommy the Tool
to remove my name from the rank and file, just as I ASK AG. Their reply was a 3 day BANNED. I told them that was and still is not
acceptable from ANY site I visit. I do the banning, not the site.

Look at AG look and WBF. How are they doing? Recently Audioholics joined the rank and file of being banned by me. I ask a simple question;
"Why do you keep going on about how a AVR can sound as good as an audiophile 2 channel system. Why don't you just BUY a good 2 channel
preamp or integrated and leave the AVR or AVP to do the sound affects?"

Then I watch the attacks on GR because it make the owner feel good I guess, so I chimed in and said "Jealousy always brings unkind words." GR
is one of the BEST avenues for the DIY and one of the best speakers made in the US for the money and your talking about the guy? What exactly
have you designed and why is your MO to talk about, other than get along with a great guy like Danny. Who doesn't like Danny after you work with
him. He is a VERY professional and a very informative guy. He is an EASY listen, everybody loves Danny. I don't care for most people. I like Danny. LOL
I remember when he started and the VMPS wars were ongoing. LOL

I called the whole AH crew that was calling people PHOOLS and names.
Not one word was said. Banned. I wear that one as a badge of pure Honor.

BTW I have a pair of VMPS RMx Elixirs, they measure horribly. I wouldn't trade my pair for any other speakers on earth.
Same with my bad measuring Cary Valve Gear, my DIY bass columns and GRs OB servo system. I love it, but my MO is
simple. I don't care who thinks what about me. I make me happy I could care less about the bad mouthing of anyone
because they don't like the way people enjoy MUSIC.

I'm a gear junkie, plain and simple, I like stuff. I like Turntables, and Valve gear and Reel to Reel and small planar/ribbon speakers.
I have nor will I ever pay more than 200.00 usd for the best cable on planet earth.

50% of the sound is the room after people understand that, we usually get along just fine. I'm an old retired heavy duty mechanic.
Show me the all the spec and information you have, THEN I listen with my ROOM, my gear, my cables, my speakers, my beverage
and my dog.

Cary, Mcintosh, Thoren, Russco, Decware, Herron, Nord, Behringer, DIY, Jensen Imperials, RMx, RM30, GRs (a few)

50K DACs exist because someone pays 50K for it. I paid 39K for a house. Their business, my business. Simple.

Regards

It's best not to dwell on the past. It's gone and done. We can't change it. Not only that, but the past doesn't define us. What we do today and in the future is what defines us.

For my own self, I'd like to welcome you to ASR. I hope you enjoy being here, and I hope we enjoy having you here.

Jim Taylor

 

[Chrispy]

I believe he said that is what happened. Several others joined in to say the same thing.

This is my first post here. I was banned at a few spots because of opposing views, not on the science or the lack of it. I was banned for
calling shady practices what they were "SHADY"

I couldn't figure how or why people were being banned on AG. Then I did. There wasn't a reason, just ONE horrible moderator. They only have
one person running the forums and most of the sales. SHE has removed whole threads and enough post to fill ALL the libraries of congress 5 times.

A quote from her "We like a spirited debate". When I joined AG under Diepiolet they lost my information. I think I was member # 201.
They lost ALL my information in 2015. I contacted them/her 15 time and NEVER got a resolution or my old name back. I had a "good rating" that
is where the story gets strange. I had to reregister and I did under OldHvyMec.

I noticed everybody that sold on AG was 100% or 0% but NO BAD RATINGS or bad reviews. I'll leave it there.

Then I noticed the same cover up, the same BS and the same "shut the thread" mentality at WBF. The crap I read there.
I called Viking Acoustic on ripping a person off. I didn't start the thread, I just called a rip of a rip off and told Tommy the Tool
to remove my name from the rank and file, just as I ASK AG. Their reply was a 3 day BANNED. I told them that was and still is not
acceptable from ANY site I visit. I do the banning, not the site.

Look at AG look and WBF. How are they doing? Recently Audioholics joined the rank and file of being banned by me. I ask a simple question;
"Why do you keep going on about how a AVR can sound as good as an audiophile 2 channel system. Why don't you just BUY a good 2 channel
preamp or integrated and leave the AVR or AVP to do the sound affects?"

Then I watch the attacks on GR because it make the owner feel good I guess, so I chimed in and said "Jealousy always brings unkind words." GR
is one of the BEST avenues for the DIY and one of the best speakers made in the US for the money and your talking about the guy? What exactly
have you designed and why is your MO to talk about, other than get along with a great guy like Danny. Who doesn't like Danny after you work with
him. He is a VERY professional and a very informative guy. He is an EASY listen, everybody loves Danny. I don't care for most people. I like Danny. LOL
I remember when he started and the VMPS wars were ongoing. LOL

I called the whole AH crew that was calling people PHOOLS and names.
Not one word was said. Banned. I wear that one as a badge of pure Honor.

BTW I have a pair of VMPS RMx Elixirs, they measure horribly. I wouldn't trade my pair for any other speakers on earth.
Same with my bad measuring Cary Valve Gear, my DIY bass columns and GRs OB servo system. I love it, but my MO is
simple. I don't care who thinks what about me. I make me happy I could care less about the bad mouthing of anyone
because they don't like the way people enjoy MUSIC.

I'm a gear junkie, plain and simple, I like stuff. I like Turntables, and Valve gear and Reel to Reel and small planar/ribbon speakers.
I have nor will I ever pay more than 200.00 usd for the best cable on planet earth.

50% of the sound is the room after people understand that, we usually get along just fine. I'm an old retired heavy duty mechanic.
Show me the all the spec and information you have, THEN I listen with my ROOM, my gear, my cables, my speakers, my beverage
and my dog.

Cary, Mcintosh, Thoren, Russco, Decware, Herron, Nord, Behringer, DIY, Jensen Imperials, RMx, RM30, GRs (a few)

50K DACs exist because someone pays 50K for it. I paid 39K for a house. Their business, my business. Simple.

Regards

Welcome to asr "ohmisback" (your AH name). I'd love to see you start a thread here on the way you can hear differences in burned in cables, and cables in general due to metallurgy and dielectrics used. You might be disappointed by this too https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...research-lgk-2-0-speaker-review-a-joke.34783/

 

[dartinbout]

The inability of some posters there to accept evidence-based science is stunning. It is a similar logical construct as saying “I’m not going to treat my cancer because the treatments make me feel worse. Your fancy MRIs, blood analyzers, and pathology tests can’t measure my feelings.”

Denial can reach exceptional heights. Didn't Steve Jobs treat his prostate cancer with kale enemas or some such crazyness?

 

[OldHvyMec]

I want to thank everyone for the welcome. I'm a simple person. I'm a retired master mechanic. Hydraulics mainly at the end. I like the idea of good sound
information I can use and understand. I have a tough time with some of the magic talk and the hocus pocus.

Because I worked around some very expensive equipment from different manufactures I really couldn't chose sides. I learned a little more discretion other than "Hay Joe your equipment is a real pile" vs "Hay Joe can I help you fix something"?

I find that being somewhat of a gentleman goes a long ways to a point. I see a lot of restraint on the part of Mr. Amir on the AG site. It seldom matters who you are on that site the best posters died, were banned, or quit posting under protest because of the hundreds of bans they imposed. It's sad there was a good crowd of nuts over there.

DIY, and a few other have been my staple for quite a while. I've read ASR for a long time. I like what this site offers. NO banners plugging the site. Good tools to post with, an Ignore button. There isn't an entire row of pawn lined up in front Amir. He speaks, keeps his cool and offers answers on another site rather eloquently. I'm impressed. I would really like to see that same approach from ALL the Audio forum people. AG has NEVER had a decent handle on the rat packing. They use to be OK. They do have their merry little band though. After several posters got a hold of me I found out how they work. I saw it first hand at AH too. No thanks

I asked a simple question of all people that can hear pretty good with either ear AND have not ruined their ears with sound pollution.

If a person you knew were to call you on the phone (not in person which would be a lot better) could you tell who it was after a year, 5 years, 10, years, 20 years, how about 37 years? I called a buddy after 37 year and he knew who I was in 5 seconds after I said "hello how have you been". It has happened to me several times.
15.8 billion different ear shapes. I learned that in basic science/biology classes pre 8th grade in the 60s.
How do you explain 15.8 billion opinions on what they heard? I asked a person if all 6-10 test they ran covered all 15.8 billion ears?
I think that one got be banned too. BUT I wasn't called a PHOOL any more at least.

But then I'm not trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. AVR or AVP do what they are intended to do.
They are for sound affect that can reproduce music. If you want great stereo sound, start with stereo gear. LOL
I suppose that is a problem when fewer and fewer use AVs and a site is peddling AVs.
I have a few AVPs, not a big AVR fan.

Regards

 

[Beave]

I like pancakes.

 

[holbob]

I want to thank everyone for the welcome. I'm a simple person. I'm a retired master mechanic. Hydraulics mainly at the end. I like the idea of good sound
information I can use and understand. I have a tough time with some of the magic talk and the hocus pocus.

Because I worked around some very expensive equipment from different manufactures I really couldn't chose sides. I learned a little more discretion other than "Hay Joe your equipment is a real pile" vs "Hay Joe can I help you fix something"?

I find that being somewhat of a gentleman goes a long ways to a point. I see a lot of restraint on the part of Mr. Amir on the AG site. It seldom matters who you are on that site the best posters died, were banned, or quit posting under protest because of the hundreds of bans they imposed. It's sad there was a good crowd of nuts over there.

DIY, and a few other have been my staple for quite a while. I've read ASR for a long time. I like what this site offers. NO banners plugging the site. Good tools to post with, an Ignore button. There isn't an entire row of pawn lined up in front Amir. He speaks, keeps his cool and offers answers on another site rather eloquently. I'm impressed. I would really like to see that same approach from ALL the Audio forum people. AG has NEVER had a decent handle on the rat packing. They use to be OK. They do have their merry little band though. After several posters got a hold of me I found out how they work. I saw it first hand at AH too. No thanks

I asked a simple question of all people that can hear pretty good with either ear AND have not ruined their ears with sound pollution.

If a person you knew were to call you on the phone (not in person which would be a lot better) could you tell who it was after a year, 5 years, 10, years, 20 years, how about 37 years? I called a buddy after 37 year and he knew who I was in 5 seconds after I said "hello how have you been". It has happened to me several times.
15.8 billion different ear shapes. I learned that in basic science/biology classes pre 8th grade in the 60s.
How do you explain 15.8 billion opinions on what they heard? I asked a person if all 6-10 test they ran covered all 15.8 billion ears?
I think that one got be banned too. BUT I wasn't called a PHOOL any more at least.

But then I'm not trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. AVR or AVP do what they are intended to do.
They are for sound affect that can reproduce music. If you want great stereo sound, start with stereo gear. LOL
I suppose that is a problem when fewer and fewer use AVs and a site is peddling AVs.
I have a few AVPs, not a big AVR fan.

Regards

Are you the protagonist from the lego movie?

 

[voodooless]

How do you explain 15.8 billion opinions on what they heard? I asked a person if all 6-10 test they ran covered all 15.8 billion ears?

Russel’s Teapot applies…

 

[OldHvyMec]

Welcome to asr "ohmisback" (your AH name). I'd love to see you start a thread here on the way you can hear differences in burned in cables, and cables in general due to metallurgy and dielectrics used. You might be disappointed by this too https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...research-lgk-2-0-speaker-review-a-joke.34783/

Chrispy I'm sure you have the best intentions, cables are NOT BURNED-IN they are BROKEN-IN just like everything on earth.

Everything on earth SETTLES and gravity is a serious thing. Everything moves and vibrates. Nothing is constant, everything is in a constant flux.

BTW I worked on ground stabilization equipment. I worked around a LOT of different engineers. Sound engineer don't build speakers.
Just the low hanging fruit works for speaker people. No money in it.

I have conditioned cables for 45 year. For the last 10 or so I ADDED a cable cooker to the mix. I use to rewire a lot of tonearms.
When you work on a tonearm and it sound worse than when you started you might ask a question or two. I did. A guy in Elk Grove
made most of the radio station woodies with Stanton and Shure carts. He was there until the mid 80s.

He strung 30 foot runs of 4 color wire. I was pretty young then. That wire was visually inspected and looked at how it was put through the dies.
He ran current through the wires for over a month, dialing it up and down. I think it was a variac. I worked at a machine shop that fixed and
machined the platters for the QRKs, Sparta and Russco TT. I'd drop off the work and visit with the guy.

I bought my wire from him and my second attempt was night and day from my original repair and much better than the OEM. I learned a lot from that guy.
The right cables matter in the right place. After 20 years of rewiring tonearms and the die off of the 80-90 of Tonearms I gave that silly low paying work up.
I'd much rather smash my fingers for the next 25 years.

I'm a turntable guy, I still use 78s and a Victrola during Christmas. What can I say I like polishing my own points (stylus)

Regards

 

[OldHvyMec]

Are you the protagonist from the lego movie?

No idea what your talking about. I seldom watch TV.

Russel’s Teapot applies…

No idea what Russel's tea pot is. I do have a Jack Russel and had a Parsons Russel. Bubs one and two.
I have a rabbit named Junior. Great pair of stereo ears. Really like when I rotate the Carys back and pull
the Peachtree/Nords out. He's a tube bunny. What can I say. I don't argue with the ears. LOL

Regards

 

[JSmith]

No idea what Russel's tea pot is.

I would love an Earl Grey, hot, from this teapot.


JSmith

 

[voodooless]

No idea what Russel's tea pot is.

Clearly, you don't know about search engines either...

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Chrispy I'm sure you have the best intentions, cables are NOT BURNED-IN they are BROKEN-IN just like everything on earth.

Everything on earth SETTLES and gravity is a serious thing. Everything moves and vibrates. Nothing is constant, everything is in a constant flux.

BTW I worked on ground stabilization equipment. I worked around a LOT of different engineers. Sound engineer don't build speakers.
Just the low hanging fruit works for speaker people. No money in it.

I have conditioned cables for 45 year. For the last 10 or so I ADDED a cable cooker to the mix. I use to rewire a lot of tonearms.
When you work on a tonearm and it sound worse than when you started you might ask a question or two. I did. A guy in Elk Grove
made most of the radio station woodies with Stanton and Shure carts. He was there until the mid 80s.

He strung 30 foot runs of 4 color wire. I was pretty young then. That wire was visually inspected and looked at how it was put through the dies.
He ran current through the wires for over a month, dialing it up and down. I think it was a variac. I worked at a machine shop that fixed and
machined the platters for the QRKs, Sparta and Russco TT. I'd drop off the work and visit with the guy.

I bought my wire from him and my second attempt was night and day from my original repair and much better than the OEM. I learned a lot from that guy.
The right cables matter in the right place. After 20 years of rewiring tonearms and the die off of the 80-90 of Tonearms I gave that silly low paying work up.
I'd much rather smash my fingers for the next 25 years.

I'm a turntable guy, I still use 78s and a Victrola during Christmas. What can I say I like polishing my own points (stylus)

Regards

Cables are not mechanics. There is no wear, nor Burn-In, nor Break-In.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Clearly, you don't know about search engines either...

Thanks I'll consider that. There is a lot of things I don't know, but I can clearly understand your reply. Maybe the quality of the question was a little lacking but the response was very clear. Thanks but no thanks, you can have that one back, I'll return the gift if you don't mind.

 

[JSmith]

I like pancakes.

I do as well... moist ones, well stacked.


JSmith

 

[Axo1989]

I do as well... moist ones, well stacked.

As long as they're warm.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Cables are not mechanics. There is no wear, nor Burn-In, nor Break-In.

At least you have a sense of humor. ALL thing BREAK-IN. Many things burn up, and burn down but cable and ENGINES, and motors and tires and my sofa, my shoes, my home everything on earth in going DOWN, breaking-in, going away, changing, except. WHAT? What is not changing? ONE THING? What is not breaking-in to a point of breaking down? Please explain to me how things work in simple terms a silly old mechanic understands. Who trained you? Tesla? I watch Murdock Mysteries. How's that?

All thing change and cool down. See I pay attention to science. There was a beginning and there is an end. 2nd law of thermal dynamics right?

A cable doesn't change? OK it's the only thing on earth or all creation that doesn't. I've been schooled. Thanks. I'll tell that to the next person
tonearm I wire and he send it to someone else to condition the wire. ALL tone arm manufactures know that, ASK any of the manufactures that
are still in business. The most important part of a tonearm is the wire.

Can you convince a customer his tonearm sounds better when it sounds worse? Why try.
If they didn't run in, change, break-in, millions of dollars would be returned because of impatient tonearm and TT nuts.
It doesn't happen for a reason.. Some people have the chops, to hear the difference many are full of crap and a few know the difference and who's
ears to trust. I'm not arguing with Carlos Santana if something sounds right. There is a time to listen, ay?

I've never met two people that were the same. EVER. 7.9 billion people, 15.8 billion different ears. That's some differences if you think about it.

Time to feed my rabbit.

 

[killdozzer]

Probably someone drew attention to it already but there is a recent long thread on Audiogon that is highly critical of ASR. It was included in their last weekly summary of popular posts. I was extremely surprised and dismayed that some of the contributors bashed Amir, ASR, and ASR pundits. It is interesting reading provided that one doesn’t take it seriously.

Surely you didn't expect these two to be compatible.

 

[TonyJZX]

one thing I would note is that some places will tend to judge other forums based on their own standards.

Why bother measuring stuff? We dont do that here. Is he running a charity? He must be selling something? We sure are.

A lot of places runs on 'feelings' - there's group think on what is good and what should be good and what is expected to be good.

A good example to me is the company of Bowers & Wilkins. I like their stuff, I own some of their stuff.

But occasionally they make something not quite right. One must be open to the fact that even the best stuff up.

One must also be open to the fact that sometimes there's a new upstart that is worth measuring and listening to.