Sergeants, Lieutenants, Audio Militia?

[fpitas]

That reminds me of a guy i knew about 15 years ago who used Tannoy Arden speakers and McIntosh tube amps to listen to Breakcore like this:

Since I listen to old UK breakbeat hardcore on my multi-thousand dollar DIY active speakers, I understand completely. Venetian Snares is upscale by comparison. The rave scene guys sold records out of their cars.

 

[sergeauckland]

Just proves this forum is hitting the spot.

In my view, yes and no! (how's that for hedging my bets...)

Yes, we concentrate on measurements, which does remove the arm-waving, uncontrolled opinions of the subjectivists, but does, (and I'm one of them) create some mild discomfort that too much weight is given to SINAD, and a few other numbers, to the exclusion of usability (subjective I know), reliability and repairability.

As someone who's whole professional life was in the pro-audio industry (Broadcasting), technical performance hasn't been of any concern for at least 30 years, as anything made since the 1980s can be taken as 'transparent'. I'm of course excluding the lunatic fringe of valve (and some SS devices) which deliberately try and be different.

We're far more concerned with facilities, reliability and reparability than technical performance, which, as I said, can be taken as read.

I appreciate that ASR can't do this with user's own items submitted for test, but one test I would like to see on every amplifier (and I do this with anything I buy for myself) is to short out the output at full power (or full output in the case of a preamp or source) and see if it survives. If it doesn't, it goes back. Clearly, any amplifier that's not advertised as short-circuit protected I wouldn't buy in the first place, but at least I would like ASR reviews to mention that in the text, and we can make our own mind up about that.

Other things like measuring the DC rails and comparing that with the voltage rating of the reservoir capacitors. I've seen amplifiers with 64V capacitors on a 60v unstabilised rail. Ditto temperature rating on reservoir caps. It would be nice to know if they're 85° or 105° especially if the device runs warm.

As to loudspeakers, I don't see that we can be doing anything different to what we are, given that loudspeakers are expensive and fragile to ship, and heaving up 'proper' i.e. large, loudspeakers onto the Kippel rig may just not be practicable. Understandably, few manufacturers are interested in sending ASR their expensive TOTL 'speakers for us to tear them apart, far better to send them to a sympathetic magazine that will give them a glowing review full of purple prose. Who wants a headless panther on their $100,000 creation...

We (as ASR) are the victims of our own success. We tear inadequate stuff apart regardless of the provenance, and shatter long held illusions. I've been accused on other forums of killing all the fun when pointing out the absurdities of others' positions, ASR does it on a rather grander scale, so more power to us.

S.

 

[Vacceo]

That reminds me of a guy i knew about 15 years ago who used Tannoy Arden speakers and McIntosh tube amps to listen to Breakcore like this:

The gear should be agnostic to the source. If it works as intended, it should just deliver whatever is in the source. That´s why the Pass Labs I listened to while playing Death Metal sound odd. Same for Acuphase on the high frequencies.

 

[Vacceo]

We (as ASR) are the victims of our own success. We tear inadequate stuff apart regardless of the provenance, and shatter long held illusions. I've been accused on other forums of killing all the fun when pointing out the absurdities of others' positions, ASR does it on a rather grander scale, so more power to us.

S.

ASR gives you the data, what you do with the data and the fun we have discussing about it, is collectively, beyound each one of us. For my part, I´m blasting Altars of Madness from Morbid Angel on a set of old KEF´s. I´d rather have it playing on more modern ones or Genelecs that will show the shortcomings of the record... but also reproduce the sound of Sandoval´s blastbeats a lot better.

For me, knowing what is going on multiplies the fun exponentially. Almost the same as the guys on the video:

 

[Spkrdctr]

We (as ASR) are the victims of our own success. We tear inadequate stuff apart regardless of the provenance, and shatter long held illusions. I've been accused on other forums of killing all the fun when pointing out the absurdities of others' positions, ASR does it on a rather grander scale, so more power to us.

Yup. You are taking away "The Magic" and the fantastic story to go with the magic. People want to believe they can buy the magical fairy pixie dust and enjoy sound from heaven. That is a lot easier than learning about audio and spending time really setting up a system in house for best sound. You might have to argue with the wife on that one. So, give in to the wife and just buy more expensive pixie dust, works every time. Audio salesmen know this very well.

 

[Vacceo]

Yup. You are taking away "The Magic" and the fantastic story to go with the magic. People want to believe they can buy the magical fairy pixie dust and enjoy sound from heaven. That is a lot easier than learning about audio and spending time really setting up a system in house for best sound. You might have to argue with the wife on that one. So, give in to the wife and just buy more expensive pixie dust, works every time. Audio salesmen know this very well.

Why would I want magic when I can get infrasonics?

 

[Geert]

2 years and still no marching orders. I had it with this militia.

 

[Matthias McCready]

I know quiet a few pro audio guys who read this forum and use the things discussed here for their pro audio stuff also. I know a rental dj system where topping D10 dacs are used, but taken out of the housing and put in a more sturdy and unmarked housing (a kind of secret weapon of the owner) to connect the cdj's with spdif to. And measurements are used a lot to set up big systems and tune it right.

To be fair... literally any interface (looking at you $40 Behringer) is perfectly acceptable to tune a system with.

 

[TimF]

"I spent more time with Don (Captain Beefheart) Van Vliet when I was in high school than after he got into 'show business.'

He dropped out during his senior year, because his Dad, who was a Helms Bread truck driver, had a heart attack and 'Vliet' (as he was known then) took over his route for a while -- but most of the time he just stayed home from school.

His girlfriend, Laurie, lived in the house with him, along with his Mom (Sue), his Dad (Glen), Aunt Ione and Uncle Alan. Granny Annie lived across the street.

The way Don got his 'stage name' was, Uncle Alan had a habit of exposing himself to Laurie. He'd piss with the bathroom door open and, if she was walking by, mumble about his appendage -- something along the lines of: "Ahh, what a beauty! It looks just like a big, fine beef heart." - FZ

this post is an example of why I love audio science review.

 

[TimF]

Here's how I understand it. You get a data set with x number of observations and each has a range of accuracy. Say that one of the variables is a twelve noon temperature reading, and the gauge has reliable accuracy out to one decimal place. You input the data and run statistic tests. The computer can do the math and carryout the computations to any number of decimal places. The accuracy of the gauge limits the degree of specificity of the data, which in turn limits the degree of specificity in the computed statistics; and the number of observations in the data set is a factor in determining confidence intervals. If you are doing real science you cannot measure events out of the normal range with household measuring tools.

 

[kemmler3D]

I don't want to kill any "magic" in terms of people having "magical" experiences with whatever gear they want to spend their money on.

What's objectionable is people telling impressionable youths that magic is real.

Half serious: I blame the FDA and US Congress for audio snake oil. Way back when, they allowed homeopathy to escape the same regulation as other drugs. As such, the idea that placebo effect in random usage scenarios proves efficacy has been allowed to creep into society unchecked. Sugar pills are allowed to sit on the shelf next to real medicine without anyone stepping in. And before you know it, people are selling magic rocks and blocks of wood to arrange on your amp just so.

It's actually worse than homeopathy because most of the audio stuff costs more than sugar pills.

On the other hand, placebo effect actually works. Think about it. People actually improve when they take sugar pills, it's not just pretend health outcomes they're getting out of it. And things actually sound better to listeners primed to believe they'll sound better. The sound isn't better, but what they perceive is better, actually better, to them.

The problem is when someone claims their magical rock has quantifiable effects on audio, which they often do. This is equivalent to a sugar pill vendor saying it contains aspirin, but BETTER aspirin. No it doesn't, that's a dirty lie. There isn't any aspirin, let alone some improved version. So that's where I think the value of objective testing really is.

 

[Astoneroad]

I don't want to kill any "magic" in terms of people having "magical" experiences with whatever gear they want to spend their money on.

I believe in magic...

 

[kemmler3D]

I believe in magic...

Well it's not gear in that sense but it's a pretty affordable way to upgrade your audio...

 

[bloodshoteyed]

I've been accused on other forums of killing all the fun ...

found the perfect rank for you then:

 

[antcollinet]

On the other hand, placebo effect actually works. Think about it. People actually improve when they take sugar pills, it's not just pretend health outcomes they're getting out of it.

You need to be so careful with statements like this - yes placebo can improve how someone feels. But try homeopathy against cancer, or other serious disease, including mental illness, and you'll find out pretty quickly how valuable placebo isn't.

 

[AdamG]

2 years and still no marching orders. I had it with this militia.

Further Orders are to “March in Place” until notified otherwise! That will be all….

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Further Orders are to “March in Place” until notified otherwise! That will be all….

Oh. No weekend off to hit the bars and nightclubs?

Man this is hard.

 

[tomtoo]

I don't want to kill any "magic" in terms of people having "magical" experiences with whatever gear they want to spend their money on.

What's objectionable is people telling impressionable youths that magic is real.

Half serious: I blame the FDA and US Congress for audio snake oil. Way back when, they allowed homeopathy to escape the same regulation as other drugs. As such, the idea that placebo effect in random usage scenarios proves efficacy has been allowed to creep into society unchecked. Sugar pills are allowed to sit on the shelf next to real medicine without anyone stepping in. And before you know it, people are selling magic rocks and blocks of wood to arrange on your amp just so.

It's actually worse than homeopathy because most of the audio stuff costs more than sugar pills.

On the other hand, placebo effect actually works. Think about it. People actually improve when they take sugar pills, it's not just pretend health outcomes they're getting out of it. And things actually sound better to listeners primed to believe they'll sound better. The sound isn't better, but what they perceive is better, actually better, to them.

The problem is when someone claims their magical rock has quantifiable effects on audio, which they often do. This is equivalent to a sugar pill vendor saying it contains aspirin, but BETTER aspirin. No it doesn't, that's a dirty lie. There isn't any aspirin, let alone some improved version. So that's where I think the value of objective testing really is.

Well I hope sugar works just as good as novocoin for you with a dental root canal treatment

Pain is just in the brain, it not realy exists.

 

[Matthias McCready]

Further Orders are to “March in Place” until notified otherwise! That will be all….

This isn't a Ranger Gord from Red Green situation is it?

 

[Spkrdctr]

Red Green should do a show on audiophiles. That would be sweet!