Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[PeteL]

So why has never published a peer reviewed paper or taken a patent out on his breakthrough engineering processes? Is it possible that it wouldn’t stand up to the scrutiny? Just saying.

Digital signal manipulation and processing don't warrant a patent, You need to actually invent a technology. For white papers, good question, it is possible, but it doesn't take away the fact that if there is no DAC chip in the box, someone had to code the thing don't you think?

 

[Trell]

But in fairness consumers fall prey this all the time. When I buy a computer, I have to resist the urge to get the latest GPU. I am amazed that my GPU in an old computer from 5 years ago still has no problem running a modern game or simulation at a decent FPS. And that even an Intel CPU with no dedicated GPU on my work laptop can still do quite a bit

Nine years ago I assembled three PCs for home use and they are still in daily use doing their tasks very well.

Two of them are passively cooled and using the iGPU. For home office usage, browsing Internet, VPN, Netflix and very simple games. Works very well with the original 16 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD.

Mine it’s quiet, has an upgraded GPU a few years ago, added 16 GB more RAM (to 32GB when one RAM stick failed) and bigger SSD. That’s it. Plays games now and then.

But they are getting old so I have to think about failure.

 

[PeteL]

There is a difference between what he claimed to have accomplished and what he actually accomplished. Do you need to have that explained?

I don't know where you are going with this. Hate the guy all you want. He made a few dacs, he is not using existing off the shelf solutions, that's his work, there are few good measuring products to prove it. That's my point I am not there to discuss marketing. I'm an engineer, I'm interested in engineering, I'll let you continue on discussing with others on the the other subjects than that that i have no interest on.

 

[Trell]

I don't know where you are going with this. Hate the guy all you want. He made a few dacs, he is not using existing off the shelf solutions, that's his work, there are few good measuring products to prove it. That's my point I am not there to discuss marketing. I'm an engineer, I'm interested in engineering, I'll let you continue on discussing with others on the the other subjects than that that i have no interest on.

Now you are projecting and putting words in my mouth.

You say you are an engineer, so why don’t you try making some outlandish claims in your field at work and see how that affects your reputation and your co-workers view of your competence?

 

[Dogcoop]

Digital signal manipulation and processing don't warrant a patent, You need to actually invent a technology. For white papers, good question, it is possible, but it doesn't take away the fact that if there is no DAC chip in the box, someone had to code the thing don't you think?

What is the WTA??? Pardon me, but I thought that was a technology…….oh……wait…..it may just be marketing. I don’t know, I’m just saying. I do think that someone had to “code the thing,” but it doesn’t mean it’s not just reinventing the wheel. What supposedly makes his dac special is the WTA. You wold think people would be reverse engineering it to death if it was such a breakthrough in dac technology, especially without patent protection.

 

[chesebert]

What is the WTA??? Pardon me, but I thought that was a technology…….oh……wait…..it may just be marketing. I don’t know, I’m just saying. I do think that someone had to “code the thing,” but it doesn’t mean it’s not just reinventing the wheel. What supposedly makes his dac special is the WTA. You wold think people would be reverse engineering it to death if it was such a breakthrough in dac technology, especially without patent protection.

Rob’s tweaked windowed sinc linear filter

 

[mansr]

I don't necessarily mean run higher taps on the windowed sinc reconstruction filter. They can for example run higher taps on the FIR interpolation filter as part of the upsampling process.

Those are the same thing.

 

[PeteL]

What is the WTA??? Pardon me, but I thought that was a technology…….oh……wait…..it may just be marketing. I don’t know, I’m just saying. I do think that someone had to “code the thing,” but it doesn’t mean it’s not just reinventing the wheel. What supposedly makes his dac special is the WTA. You wold think people would be reverse engineering it to death if it was such a breakthrough in dac technology, especially without patent protection.

It's their filter algorythm. Who would reverse engineer? Do you know many that design their own filters? You mean chip manufacturers? It takes way too much processing for a chip solution.

 

[dc655321]

Because what I hear from the buy side is that, while they concede computing power is no longer an issue, having a CPU run multiple tasks along with audio processing adds "micro-noise" to the audio signal, so you really need a dedicated DAC that does nothing but D/A conversion, a dedicated streamer that does nothing but stream, etc. each with their own power supply. No idea if this is true, although it sounds dubious.

Your intuition is correct: that’s bunk.

 

[Dogcoop]

It's their filter algorythm. Who would reverse engineer? Do you know many that design their own filters? You mean chip manufacturers? It takes way too much processing for a chip solution.

I know what the WTA is, I just thought it was a technology. My bad. Every company that produces a dac, designs their own filter. I assume that because AKM and ESS have different flavors of filter. If they buy them off the rack then I am mistaken. Do we really need all that processing power to produce a SOTA dac? You tell me.

 

[PeteL]

I know what the WTA is, I just thought it was a technology. My bad. Every company that produces a dac, designs their own filter. I assume that because AKM and ESS have different flavors of filter. If they buy them off the rack then I am mistaken. Do we really need all that processing power to produce a SOTA dac? You tell me.

I am confused sorry. By "company that produce a DAC". You mean the end product or the chip? If you mean the end product, no they don't design their filter, they use the ones on the chip they are using. If you mean companies like ESS and AKM, yes, they design filters, but are limited in what they can do in term of processing. To your last question. No, it's demonstrated that you can produce SOTA Dac with an already made for you solution. I never disputed that, but Yes, Chord reconstruction filter is mathematically objectively better than of the shelves solutions, whether it's worth it audibly or not.

 

[majingotan]

Digital signal manipulation and processing don't warrant a patent, You need to actually invent a technology. For white papers, good question, it is possible, but it doesn't take away the fact that if there is no DAC chip in the box, someone had to code the thing don't you think?

There's no DAC chip, FPGA is just purely for gazzilion taps, and the output goes to a discrete delta sigma DAC (right next to the FPGA Xilinx Chip)

In short, Chord DACs are essentially Discrete Delta Sigma DACs with crappier performance than the latest out of the shelf DAC chips from AKM and ESS.

 

[Dogcoop]

I am confused sorry. By "company that produce a DAC". You mean the end product or the chip? If you mean the end product, no they don't design their filter, they use the ones on the chip they are using. If you mean companies like ESS and AKM, yes, they design filters, but are limited in what they can do in term of processing. To your last question. No, it's demonstrated that you can produce SOTA Dac with an already made for you solution. I never disputed that, but Yes, Chord reconstruction filter is mathematically objectively better than of the shelves solutions, whether it's worth it audibly or not.

Of course I mean the chip maker. Do those processor limited filters hinder the audible performance and yet, as you agree, make their way into those SOTA devices? You can’t have it both ways. Either WTA is breakthrough technology (or whatever is the correct term) that delivers the best digital sound, or it is just one among many dacs (most are far less expensive) that deliver a SOTA experience?

 

[Trell]

I never disputed that, but Yes, Chord reconstruction filter is mathematically objectively better than of the shelves solutions, whether it's worth it audibly or not.

You say you’re an engineer but then you should know there is a big difference between mathematical theory and implementations using said theory.

In which field are you working as an engineer? I don’t recall that you said which one.

 

[Deleted member 19122]

There's no DAC chip, FPGA is just purely for gazzilion taps, and the output goes to a discrete delta sigma DAC (right next to the FPGA Xilinx Chip)

In short, Chord DACs are essentially Discrete Delta Sigma DACs with crappier performance than the latest out of the shelf DAC chips from AKM and ESS.

DING,DING,DING,we have a winner...
This whole Chord dac is a useless excuse in non engineering nonsense.Rob Watts has spouted audiofool garbage nonstop.And if his designs were so revolutionary,where is the industry wide praise for him and the heated competition to hire him away from Chord to one of the "real players" in the audio industry.It's almost like people would go to a witch doctor because he promised you a miracle treatment better than any trained doctor could give you.Think about it,who exactly has given Rob watts DAC's/M Scaler credibility??
Only paid hacks who get PAID to give good reviews and receive free product that they sell on the "down low" after they are done with their paid promotional so called "reviews" The company provides ZERO technical evidence that backs their claims.I'm actually still waiting for someone to provide me proof that Rob Watts actually has any engineering degree/certifications in a relevant field.Because for the life of me I can't find a single white paper or even him mentioning he has an engineering cert/degree on the web/LinkedIn etc.And usually his type are not shy to list their education/qualifications all over the place.Still waiting for verification on his qualifications but I'm guessing the "emperor truly has no clothes"

 

[DEALUX]

The Head Fi Facebook group does not allow posts that aren't sponsor approved lol under the guise of "your post started a flame war and instead of kicking toxic manchildren out of the group we'd rather just delete your post". It wasn't even an anti-sponsor post lol.

 

[Thomas savage]

The Head Fi Facebook group does not allow posts that aren't sponsor approved lol under the guise of "your post started a flame war and instead of kicking toxic manchildren out of the group we'd rather just delete your post". It wasn't even an anti-sponsor post lol.


View attachment 220637

The ASR logo is known to insight extreme violent reactions, they were right to remove the ' El Terrible ' from public veiw .

 

[Trell]

The ASR logo is known to insight extreme violent reactions, they were right to remove the ' El Terrible ' from public veiw .

It will also create a "safe space" where terms like blind testing, ABx and placebo are banned as that can cause damage to their fragile minds due to cognitive dissonance. To be honest, I'm not even sure that the usual member of Head Fi Facebook group can even experience cognitive dissonance as that will indicate some level of cognitive ability that is lacking.

 

[PeteL]

You say you’re an engineer but then you should know there is a big difference between mathematical theory and implementations using said theory.

In which field are you working as an engineer? I don’t recall that you said which one.

Yes I know the difference, I am not talking theory, I am talking about this implementation.

I am an electrical Engineer working in audio, for a company that I won't disclose because I am not commenting here on their behalf, it's not my rôle. I have been developping and manufacturing audio products in the past.

 

[PeteL]

Of course I mean the chip maker. Do those processor limited filters hinder the audible performance and yet, as you agree, make their way into those SOTA devices? You can’t have it both ways. Either WTA is breakthrough technology (or whatever is the correct term) that delivers the best digital sound, or it is just one among many dacs (most are far less expensive) that deliver a SOTA experience?

Sorry, I don't get your point. It's a better filter. I don't know if it's audible or not. Some devices have better Sinad. I don't know if it's audible or not. I'll let you guys define what is a SOTA experience.