Since you have a calibrated mic it is easy to validate what you’re hearing then, or whether rca or neutrik is better.
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Is REL being more 'musical' than SVS a myth, or is there some real science behind this?
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Since you have a calibrated mic it is easy to validate what you’re hearing then, or whether rca or neutrik is better.
Usher-denafrips
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With RCA the bass is a bit "not in line" with the music + it takes the signal only from the left channel. How can I measure it?
What's your pre again?
ps what's the adjustment for phase on the sub, is it variable or just a polarity flip of 0/180?
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Subwoofers are not intelligent and thus have no musicality."Musical" is a myth.
But the listener are human and can hear tunes in a musical way. If the subwoofer in a system plays the perceived tunes in a boomy, unarticulated way, the sound will be worse than without a subwoofer. Im sure everyone can agree on that.
The same can be said about every bad loudspeaker or even source or amplifier out there , and wrong installement of the two loudspeakers in the room will create melody tunes thats somewhat less easy to follow for a musical human.
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REL is wrong about its statement on good results placing one subwoofer in a corner. Its all about marketing. As you have discovered, placing one REL subwoofer near one of the main loudspeakers will create much better articulated bass, where you can hear each pitch of what the bass player plays.
Interesting enough, is that REL recommends placement of two REL subwoofers not in the corners, but near each loudspeaker.
The subwoofer itself isn't musical or playing in a musical fashion, it has a pretty simple job and there's not a lot to it if done well. You can set one up poorly, tho (i.e. boomy/unarticulated).
Agree
Andysu
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i agree strongly speakers have no musicality . take this bs snake oil .
yeah sure get speakers to sound like a piano lmao . firstly the speaker isn't the same shape or size of a piano if anyone cared to ever notice ?
you can crawl underneath a piano and listen , lay stake naked on the piano . a speaker only commonly sounds in one direction . open or free air speakers will sound everywhere but they ain't a piano , just as a pinao isn't a loudspeaker with copper wound coil and magnetic field so when electrical audio signal is placed over it makes a sound of violin .
audiophiles are about as .... as they come .
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I asked on a fb group and many swear by the REL. One went as far as "nothing beats a REL". I really doubted that, but can't explain why
Yes, they (and everything else in the audio system) are not intelligent and cannot possess "musicality." They either perform properly or faultily. Any inference of musicality is only in the mind of a human describing a subjective response.
Yes.
.But wrong placement of the loudspeakers in the room is not up to any subjective debate. If you can hear the music pitch in the bass better , it is better , and your music enjoyment will be better. If the bass-players tunes can not be heard with a distictive pitch ( If its in the recording ) then the ability to hear the bass-melodies in the music is compromised.
If the bass notes sound more like ”boom, boom, boom ” in the listeningroom instead of three distinctive tones ( again: If its in the recording ) the perceived musical quality is not very good.
fieldcar
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I suspect that rel's commonly filter out subsonics with a slow roll off below 50 or 60hz. It probably helps them play louder and accentuates punch rather than that subsonic rumble. It's a sacrifice in fidelity for their signature sound. I also suspect that this pleases a lot of old school hifi enthusiasts accustomed to large woofers that lack low end extension. My dad certainly falls into this group.
Really? Then why would you call them a sub-woofer?
fieldcar
Addicted to Fun and Learning
From the graphs I've seen, they all generally appear to do some form of subsonic filter. Maybe the larger 1508 doesn't, but I'm not sure.
Rel T5
REL T5 Subwoofer HT Labs Measures
HT Labs Measures This graph shows the quasi-anechoic (employing close-miking of the woofer) frequency response of the T5 subwoofer (blue trace). The T5’s close-miked response, normalized to the level at 80 hertz, indicates that the lower –3-decibel point is at 43 Hz and the –6-dB point is at 34...
www.soundandvision.com
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This is getting silly. There is simply no reason to introduce any issue of musicality into the physical acoustics of proper setup.Yes.
But wrong placement of the loudspeakers in the room is not up to any subjective debate. If you can hear the music pitch in the bass better , it is better , and your music enjoyment will be better. If the bass-players tunes can not be heard with a distictive pitch ( If its in the recording ) then the ability to hear the bass-melodies in the music is compromised.
If the bass notes sound more like ”boom, boom, boom ” in the listeningroom instead of three distinctive tones ( again: If its in the recording ) the perceived musical quality is not very good.
The knowledge how roomgain works seems low in this thread .
1. A closed box subwoofer falls 12dB / oct below the box resonance freq . In a normal room with concret walls, the roomgain will be almost + 12 dB/oct - making the response flat with REL subs thats closed boxes - and SVS hopelessly boomy .
2. REL :s subwoofer are all bassreinforcement loudspeakers . They have a 12 dB/oct crossover, making them perfectly fit unfiltered closed box main loudspeakers . Because its inverted - this forms a 12 dB HP and 12 dB LP crossover at the main closed box loudspeakers resonanse freq.
This is the reason REL sounds good with normal unfiltered main loudspeakers.
The subs from REL with passive radiators also have a clever HP crossover just below the passive radiators tuning point - protecting the drivers and this will also give lower distortion .
1. A closed box subwoofer falls 12dB / oct below the box resonance freq . In a normal room with concret walls, the roomgain will be almost + 12 dB/oct - making the response flat with REL subs thats closed boxes - and SVS hopelessly boomy .
2. REL :s subwoofer are all bassreinforcement loudspeakers . They have a 12 dB/oct crossover, making them perfectly fit unfiltered closed box main loudspeakers . Because its inverted - this forms a 12 dB HP and 12 dB LP crossover at the main closed box loudspeakers resonanse freq.
This is the reason REL sounds good with normal unfiltered main loudspeakers.
The subs from REL with passive radiators also have a clever HP crossover just below the passive radiators tuning point - protecting the drivers and this will also give lower distortion .
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How you hear music depend on your musicality as a human. It has nothing to do with the gear . But the installation of the products , mainly the loudspeakers placement in a room, can distort the perceived pitch .
This is not controversial and can easily be proven with music .
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SVS is not hopelessly boomy, at least none of the ones I've heard and I've heard most of their current models.
Many subwoofers are available with 12 dB/oct filters, and available in ported or sealed models. Most AVRs include 12 dB/octave crossovers (at least). Room modes and SBIR (speaker boundary interference response) are well understood and apply to any room (and subwoofer). Pitch is not changed, though its amplitude can be, by these effects. REL is no better or worse than a myriad of other subs, with the possible exception that their claim that connecting to the amplifier outputs instead of subwoofer/LFE outputs of an AVR is more "musical" is pretty ridiculous and easily proven false. Note a number of other subs include high-level inputs, though these days those would most useful to those not having a subwoofer output (e.g. many two-channel systems).
Main speakers also come in a variety of topologies, including ported and sealed models, which can complicate subwoofer integration. There is not a "one size fits all" solution, but that does not mean the solutions are not well understood and readily available.
Optimizing subwoofer integration, including placement in the room, is required for any sub and system to sound its best. IME/IMO, the vast majority of the time someone says their sub is "too weak" or "too boomy" it is an integration/placement problem, not a sub problem.
Main speakers also come in a variety of topologies, including ported and sealed models, which can complicate subwoofer integration. There is not a "one size fits all" solution, but that does not mean the solutions are not well understood and readily available.
Optimizing subwoofer integration, including placement in the room, is required for any sub and system to sound its best. IME/IMO, the vast majority of the time someone says their sub is "too weak" or "too boomy" it is an integration/placement problem, not a sub problem.
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