KEF Reference and Blade Meta announced, but where is the R Meta?????

[Descartes]

Problem being when you can have speaker for 1-2k that has similar finish when it comes to wood veneer.
You would expect little bit more for the money - not only in terms of finish, or sound but design as well. Reference is very simple, old fashion design.
True design like this fits better into average British home. Maybe that’s what their niche is - small footprint.

Yep to mundane for the price might as well stick with the R series after it get upgraded as well with meta!

 

[killdozzer]

To all of you engaged in the wire-talk, perhaps it would be the right time to stop. Not that it was ever a good time to begin.
Really stop for a second and realize how silly this is.

- Playing detective, opening KEF speakers to catch them red-handed or thick-cabled? This really makes sense to you? You think they secretly put better cables into upper tier speakers and not letting you in on the game? You can't be serious.

- Thinking cables in the R series wouldn't stand the load? What?! This is something that makes sense to you? So you wouldn't rely on the specs that say it can play so and so loud at certain frequencies, you would rather open up a speaker and see a wire that looks thin to you and you draw a conclusion it wouldn't stand the load?

Just stop. This is ill-informed suspicion directed at a decent enough company and it is a hostile treatment. No one is trying to fool you or trick you.

If ever such a cable/wire would come about that seriously improve SQ, you'll hear about it for sure. It's not hidden in the Reference series.

Top tier gear often must mind the expectations of the average customer of such gear.

 

[YSC]

To all of you engaged in the wire-talk, perhaps it would be the right time to stop. Not that it was ever a good time to begin.
Really stop for a second and realize how silly this is.

- Playing detective, opening KEF speakers to catch them red-handed or thick-cabled? This really makes sense to you? You think they secretly put better cables into upper tier speakers and not letting you in on the game? You can't be serious.

- Thinking cables in the R series wouldn't stand the load? What?! This is something that makes sense to you? So you wouldn't rely on the specs that say it can play so and so loud at certain frequencies, you would rather open up a speaker and see a wire that looks thin to you and you draw a conclusion it wouldn't stand the load?

Just stop. This is ill-informed suspicion directed at a decent enough company and it is a hostile treatment. No one is trying to fool you or trick you.

If ever such a cable/wire would come about that seriously improve SQ, you'll hear about it for sure. It's not hidden in the Reference series.

Top tier gear often must mind the expectations of the average customer of such gear.

Actually as a user if I own a passive speaker, when a driver can take only certain input before it breaks itself, I prefer things like wiring to melt first just like a fuse would than have a driver kick its own butt off

 

[steve59]

If the plastic base makes a significant difference in price with no difference in sq then I suppose an avid owner could get custom bases made from whatever they want. I had the persona 7f and the aluminum plinth is a very nice touch. maybe the cabinet being a plastic/fiberglass product an aluminum base would look out of place, idk. Tbh it’s not something I pay attention to as the cabinet itself draws enough attention.

 

[jackocleebrown]

BTW - any plans to offer upgrade kits to existing ref/blade owners? If the bass drivers are the same, presumably a lot cheaper and potenitally DIY able to to change out the uni-q and crossover?

We're not planning on offering upgrade kits. The modified parts list is larger thank you would imagine, especially due to the new decoupling chassis on the Uni-Q, which means some of the mounting details have changed. Besides this, the Reference and Blade speakers are tricky to disassemble and reassemble. They also both have parts that can fairly easily be scratched or chipped. It's also very easy to accidentally incorrectly wire the new crossover or driver during this procedure, and in a home or retailer setting we can't provide a final QA test to confirm correct operation.

 

[jackocleebrown]

@jackocleebrown Can you explain why KEF Reference series speakers have a different internal cabling than the R series? Do these cables contribute anything to the sound?

Hi Crosstalk,

The wire specification is similar but the sourcing is totally different because the R-series is assembled in our factory in China whereas the Reference/Blade in our UK factory. I think that you picked up that visually there's a big difference because the Reference series cable has an outer sleeve that holds the twisted pairs together but the R-series doesn't.

 

[YSC]

We're not planning on offering upgrade kits. The modified parts list is larger thank you would imagine, especially due to the new decoupling chassis on the Uni-Q, which means some of the mounting details have changed. Besides this, the Reference and Blade speakers are tricky to disassemble and reassemble. They also both have parts that can fairly easily be scratched or chipped. It's also very easy to accidentally incorrectly wire the new crossover or driver during this procedure, and in a home or retailer setting we can't provide a final QA test to confirm correct operation.

completely understand that, unless it's a scheme where KEF experts will be sent to replace that or the pair shipping back to KEF for retrofitting, but then the cost won't be low considering shipment and also parts, labour... I would still suggest KEF to offer that as a scheme, just to say encourage to be more environmental friendly.

But if I am the owner, I won't bother, the improvement isn't that night and day to start of, and in room have a lot more causing variations which I doubt the improvement will be that audiable.

 

[jackocleebrown]

completely understand that, unless it's a scheme where KEF experts will be sent to replace that or the pair shipping back to KEF for retrofitting, but then the cost won't be low considering shipment and also parts, labour... I would still suggest KEF to offer that as a scheme, just to say encourage to be more environmental friendly.

But if I am the owner, I won't bother, the improvement isn't that night and day to start of, and in room have a lot more causing variations which I doubt the improvement will be that audiable.

Hi YSC,

Thanks for your comments. One of the thing that we notice is how many of our loudspeakers are being used 20+ or 30+ years after they were produced. This is very satisfying for us to see, especially from an environmental perspective. I'm sure the non-meta Reference and Blade speakers out there will be being used for many many years to come.

 

[boXem]

Hi YSC,

Thanks for your comments. One of the thing that we notice is how many of our loudspeakers are being used 20+ or 30+ years after they were produced. This is very satisfying for us to see, especially from an environmental perspective. I'm sure the non-meta Reference and Blade speakers out there will be being used for many many years to come.

My dad still runs his Kef 104 on an almost daily basis. Even the front foam survived my sister and myself for years until it changed into magic powder 20 ago.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I Hope Kef decide to offer upgrades kits for their lines up, even with the R series. ( Even if we need to pay a little bit )

The world needed environmental solutions yesterday, today it's a bit later .

 

[steve59]

Hi YSC,

Thanks for your comments. One of the thing that we notice is how many of our loudspeakers are being used 20+ or 30+ years after they were produced. This is very satisfying for us to see, especially from an environmental perspective. I'm sure the non-meta Reference and Blade speakers out there will be being used for many many years to come.

I was offered $1000 for my 25 year old R105/3. not bad considering, but trying to improve on those speakers with today's dollars is a huge incentive to keep them. Does the blade improve? yes, but at 10x the price new for new and x15 used for used!!

 

[YSC]

Hi YSC,

Thanks for your comments. One of the thing that we notice is how many of our loudspeakers are being used 20+ or 30+ years after they were produced. This is very satisfying for us to see, especially from an environmental perspective. I'm sure the non-meta Reference and Blade speakers out there will be being used for many many years to come.

I am pretty sure for this, though I have to admit that my own KEF purchase was from the X300A, which was said to be a failure of the KEF lineup (some resonance in the mid range? not sure as I have never measured them ) now used as my TV and PS4 speaker, it did survive longer than I'd expect, something like 7 years and still going strong. now mainly running Genelecs. But to be said I did appreciate the KEF uniQ design and sound. the blade is something I really like design wise, though the size and price make it practically impossible to obtain.

 

[pablolie]

I was offered $1000 for my 25 year old R105/3. not bad considering, but trying to improve on those speakers with today's dollars is a huge incentive to keep them. Does the blade improve? yes, but at 10x the price new for new and x15 used for used!!

I have kept (very good) speakers that I got back in 1994 - my first "reference-ish" speaker. They still rock and help me put all these "revolutionary advances in speaker technology" in perspective ...

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

If the plastic base makes a significant difference in price with no difference in sq then I suppose an avid owner could get custom bases made from whatever they want. I had the persona 7f and the aluminum plinth is a very nice touch. maybe the cabinet being a plastic/fiberglass product an aluminum base would look out of place, idk. Tbh it’s not something I pay attention to as the cabinet itself draws enough attention.

I believe the plastic base looks ugly, personally I would guess the kef blades may look much better with these

 

[pablolie]

I believe the plastic base looks ugly, personally I would guess the kef blades may look much better with these
...

I don't think I look much at the base ... that said, as a Roomba owner for many years, its daily running into speaker stands does leave marks - in a perfect world I'd like stands or a base that is Roomba-immune...

 

[bo_knows]

Few videos with comments and audio clips on new meta models.
Adele sure sounds good.
I used a youtube translator feature.

 

[wavesharp]

KEF has one exciting roadmap. In 2022, KEF will also update some mid-range series.

 

[amansangar]

@jackocleebrown Hi Jack is there a ETA on when the Kef R Meta series will be out? Unfortunately the Reference Meta series is out of my budget at the moment. I understand if you are unable to tell us, its just the KEF R series have been sold out for a couple of months in gloss black in the UK and if there is a new meta version I would rather wait a year or so for those instead.

 

[jackocleebrown]

Jack,

Are you able to share what slope crossovers are utilized in the new meta products? I've always been interested in Vandersteen speakers and the ideas of phase & time coherence. I recall a KEF Youtube video and if I remember correctly, you mentioned the potential of first order cross-overs. I believe there is also a Youtube video from PS audio where their speaker designer also toyed with the idea of first order cross-over networks. I write this as an owner of LS50s; R3s; and I have Ref 1 Metas on order although I'm tempted to go further up the line.

Hi @MaggieRose,

The Reference META use mostly 2nd order electrical slopes. Time and phase coherence in crossover design is a topic that interests me too. However, a common misconception is that the crossover order is only due to the order used in the electrical filter. This is not the case, the true crossover order is the combination of both the electrical filters and the driver responses. This means that it's virtually impossible to achieve a true first order crossover and unfortunately means that this route to perfect time coherence is effectively closed.

Here's an illustration from the Reference 2014 white paper. Below we see the frequency response of an extremely good tweeter that is perfectly flat from 500Hz to 20kHz.

We now combine this with a perfect MF driver, with a flat response from 20Hz to 20kHz, and a 1st order electrical crossover network. The flattest response we can achieve is shown below:

The corresponding group delay is shown below and is not constant, indicating that time coherence isn't achieved. In conclusion, even with unrealistically good drivers it wasn't possible to achieve time coherence with 1st order electrical filters in the crossover.

The white paper for the 2014 Reference series includes an entire section on the crossover order (starting on page 31) and gives some background to why we tend to use 2nd order crossovers.

 

[jgiannakas]

@jackocleebrown Hi Jack is there a ETA on when the Kef R Meta series will be out? Unfortunately the Reference Meta series is out of my budget at the moment. I understand if you are unable to tell us, its just the KEF R series have been sold out for a couple of months in gloss black in the UK and if there is a new meta version I would rather wait a year or so for those instead.

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