Technics SB-C700 Review (Coaxial Bookshelf)

[Everett T]

He said 'costs' this much. Anyway 2db at 1400 hz isn't EQ that's sitting up straight or slouching, whatever.

Amir always says 'So switched out the speaker with Revel M105. Wow, oh wow!' Am I missing the point of this review site or is there some reason for anyone here not to just go out and buy the revels and be done with it?

Thanks, read the orginal a little too fast.

 

[restorer-john]

The plots look the same because they are the same plots! (both horizontal directivity)

Same story with directivity:

Due to coaxial driver, vertical response is almost the same:

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

This part really caught my eye, because I don't think I've ever seen such a perfect match between vert/horizontal response. But, I think it's because you accidentally posted the horizontal twice?

BTW, I hope your flooding situation is resolved and everyone fully recovered. Water is the worst - from a homeowner perspective, it's one of my big phobias because the residuals can stay hidden seemingly forever.

He said that

 

[ROOSKIE]

He said 'costs' this much. Anyway 2db at 1400 hz isn't EQ that's sitting up straight or slouching, whatever.

Amir always says 'So switched out the speaker with Revel M105. Wow, oh wow!' Am I missing the point of this review site or is there some reason for anyone here not to just go out and buy the revels and be done with it?

Because you may have different tastes, especially regarding dispersion?
You room may interact differently based on size, shape, position within the room, furnishings.
The data for both speakers is essentially superb given the form factor. They obviously sound different based on the both interpreting the available objective data and Amir's personal subjective feedback.
Who knows what you will like? Only one way to find out. I always appreciate Amir's subjective assessment it is fun, that said, buying a speaker based on one person's feedback is really only for those who don't want to deal with any of this. IMHO, the better idea is to try a few different candidates.

 

[radhaz]

According to this article, it launches 2/25/2022

Technics、ペア11万円の小型スピーカー。22万円でシステム完成

パナソニックは、Technicsブランドの新製品として新開発の同軸ユニットを採用した小型ブックシェルフスピーカー「SB-C600」を2月25日に発売する。価格はペアで11万円。なお、同日には小型ネットワークCDレシーバー「SA-C600」(11万円)も同時発売され、組み合わせると計22万円でTechnicsの本格的なサウンドが楽しめるオーディオシステムが構築できる。

av.watch.impress.co.jp

 

[PeteL]

I hope you are right, but the context of my response was to an earlier post claiming Panasonic's "near zero marketing".

Given the pandemic supply chain issues, may be just part of the new reality, but that press release was from September 2021. So, my point is that there seems to only be marketing to date. Time will tell. The quoted musicdirect price is already much lower than the C700, but if you click on the C600 SHOP link on the US Technics site, you get a 404...

View attachment 184494
Maybe more proof of marginal marketing? If one bad review helped do in the C700, would think they would be very careful about the go-to-market message for apparent successor.

If it were my product, under the circumstances, I would ensure that eval units were getting in the hands of reviewers and managing expectations on the C600's availability. So far, all we have is wishful thinking and without any market message, potential customers give up and go buy something else.

Maybe we should make an appeal for Amir to get a review sample?

They announced it for November, so far they are not even 3 months late... That's nothing, everybody is late, it's the norm more than the exception, nothing to worry about there.

 

[lurkera]

This has a wide dispersion pattern like the Wilson TuneTot, if you eq it to have a similar fr and don't listen at 96 db, can you get it close or is there some design feature in the TuneTot that prevents this? Asking from a design point of view of course

 

[Walter]

Amir always says 'So switched out the speaker with Revel M105. Wow, oh wow!' Am I missing the point of this review site or is there some reason for anyone here not to just go out and buy the revels and be done with it?

If I needed speakers in that budget range for far field listening, and couldn't do in-home auditions, that is what I would buy. Not because of Amir's preferences, but because when I conducted extensive listening tests when I was buying in 2000, Revel was my favorite at every price range they had a speaker in. So I have a certain level of confidence that their house sound suits me. Others have compared them to KEF R3 or Genelec, and preferred those, so tastes and rooms differ.

 

[Moravid]

The C600 are in stock in Australia and selling for 1749 vs 3099 for the C700. Also seeing SB G90M2 for 9898 AUD.

TECHNICS SB C600 Bookshelf Speakers

The Technics SB-C600 Premium Class speaker system recreates a spacious, 'concert hall' experience in the home. The perfect complement for the SA-C600 Network Receiver.

www.apollohifi.com.au

TECHNICS SB G90M2 Floor Standing Speakers

Floor standing speaker that realises superb sound image localisation and rich, three-dimensional sound space.

www.apollohifi.com.au

 

[Tangband]

This has been noted before but the relation between 1-2 kHz and 3-4 kHz levels are important. Peaking 3-4 kHz vs 1-2 kHz will cause speakers to sound a bit rough and hard, IMO.

Both Revel m105 and m106 seems to have a peak around 4,5 kHz . I have tested to set such a peak with my 8340 with the help of GLM , and listening to music with two loudspeakers in stereo, the sound gets a little better . However, there is no gain in sound quality with this peak using only one loudspeaker.
…so , in my opinion, the search for the holy grail regarding stereo system compensation is indeed at 1-2 kHz, but more important, also somewhere between 4,5 - 8 kHz. Do you agree on that ?

I have lately made measurements on the Linn akudorik exakt dsp loudspeaker, a 4-way high end loudspeaker, and with my line audio om1 mic measuring only one speaker from 1 metre, on axis and 20 degree off axis, they have a similar peak as the Revels at 4,5 kHz, otherwise very flat.

I believe that the troubled sound with coaxials in full range use, has the problem with the bass acting as a variable waveguide, modulating the tweeter and making directivity worse.

Technics SB-C700 Review (Coaxial Bookshelf)

I can understand from a visual point of view why coaxial designs are so popular. Using a coaxial driver fullrange is however not a very good idea for good sound. The sound gonna be worse than the measurements shows because of the bassdriver modulating the tweeter like a variable waveguide when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Geert]

so , in my opinion, the search for the holy grail regarding stereo system compensation is indeed at 1-2 kHz, but more important, also somewhere between 4,5 - 8 kHz.

It's actually 20 Hz to 20 kHz.

 

[Rick Sykora]

The plots look the same because they are the same plots! (both horizontal directivity)

Good catch John!

 

[Rick Sykora]

The plots look the same because they are the same plots! (both horizontal directivity)

Looks as though @amirm tried to fix, but inline it is still not right.

The vertical sonogram is attached to the bottom of the review...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/technics-sb-c700-measurements-vertical-directivity-coaxial-bookshelf-speaker-png.184266/

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

Who knows what you will like?

According to the stereophile review the technics is subjectively neutral to a fault. For the most part people don't like that even though everyone claims to want accuracy their biases are too overwhelming. The 'wow' factor with the 105s is nothing more than a euphonic coloration. The technics is objectively (if the measurements are interpretted properly) more accurate and subjectively more accurate when those listener biases are removed from the equation. The technics is a better speaker than the revel in every conceivable way. That the review states otherwise is a problem unlikely to be resolved.

 

[Basjebas]

Still available. At least in Europe.
What about the new SB-C600, one can ask?
2/3 the price, boxy, front port, probably some distortion on the edges and around port?

Technics SB-C700 Luidsprekersysteem

Technics SB-C700-B deze fantastische Luidsprekersysteem is verkrijgbaar bij ALBEPRO de Technics specialist van de Benelux.

www.albepro.nl

 

[PeteL]

According to the stereophile review the technics is subjectively neutral to a fault. For the most part people don't like that even though everyone claims to want accuracy their biases are too overwhelming. The 'wow' factor with the 105s is nothing more than a euphonic coloration. The technics is objectively (if the measurements are interpretted properly) more accurate and subjectively more accurate when those listener biases are removed from the equation. The technics is a better speaker than the revel in every conceivable way. That the review states otherwise is a problem unlikely to be resolved.

What is your definition of "Bias"? It seem what you are explaining is preference, or taste. If someone, after looking at the measurment would pretend to prefer the most neutral one because the measurment told them that's what should be preffered, that would be bias, If someone would choose to prefer the Technics because "If the measurments are interpreted correctly... the Technic is a better speaker in every conceivable way", that would be bias. Modulating what you prefer based on the measurments you see is the very definition of Bias.

 

[Geert]

The technics is a better speaker than the revel in every conceivable way.

According to the measurements it looses to the Revel in the low end.

 

[Tangband]

According to the measurements it looses to the Revel in the low end.

Revel sounds much better mainly because its not a coaxial design- my five cents. One can measure those artefacts in fullrange coaxials, but its not showing up with the klippel measurements system. The artifacts are very audible with music though.

This shows what happens in a full range coaxial design with the cone moving 3 mm. Its acting as a variable waveguide, modulating the treble. Listening to music with both bass-playing and cymbals at the same time gonna produce this results. A sine sweep or Amirms klippel system dont show this.

 

[thewas]

Revel sounds much better mainly because its not a coaxial design. One can measure those artefacts in fullrange coaxials, but its not showing up with the kippel measurements system. The artifacts are very audible with music though.

That's your opinion, mine is different. In the end every loudspeaker is a compromise, for example when having to choose between the Revel and Technics I would depend it on the listening distance, listening level and room acoustics, for higher SPL and listening distances the Revel, for nearfield and poor acoustics the coaxial. (I used to own several examples of both types)

 

[Tangband]

That's your opinion, mine is different. In the end every loudspeaker is a compromise, for example when having to chose for between the Revel and Technics I would depend it on the listening distance, listening level and room acoustics, for higher SPL and listening distances the Revel, for nearfield and poor acoustics the coaxial.

I respect your opinion.