How loud is loud, how to measure it? Is THX calibration bad for your health?

[sarumbear]

Question is for most of the posters here is and the OP is. Have you actually been to a THX cinema and if so name the site and movie that you saw.
I don't have to answer mine. I been to the CIC Empire Leicester Square, the CIC High Wycombe and the Warner village west end.

There are no THX certified cinemas anymore. Dolby conquered the professional market a while ago. Almost all major chain film theatres are now Dolby certified. Since the 90s the THX certification is only used on consumer systems, like home theatres, cars, etc.

 

[abdo123]

my friend was playing the violin, i was standing around 3 meters away and i was recording average levels of roughly 90dB (Z-weighted). roughly just as loud as my commute with the metro.

I'm really starting to shift my opinion regarding loudness from 'extremely cautious' to 'just don't go crazy'.

Realism and immersion is tightly connected to how loud you're listening, whether it's a movie, an orchestra or simply a video game. Just be careful and monitor your volume. What's the point of having hearing in the first place if we don't use it to watch an epic movie the way the director intended or attend a breathtaking musical performance.

 

[sarumbear]

Just be careful and monitor your volume.

That!

 

[Soundmixer]

Question is for most of the posters here is and the OP is. Have you actually been to a THX cinema and if so name the site and movie that you saw.
I don't have to answer mine. I been to the CIC Empire Leicester Square, the CIC High Wycombe and the Warner village west end.

I participated in an SMPTE review of 32 THX-certified theaters, screening rooms, and dubbing stages in Los Angeles, San Diego, and the San Francisco Bay Area.

The results.

None of them measured the same.
None of them sounded the same.
Only 5% of them were actually checked by THX technicians, as they were used for high-profile premieres of movies mixed on a THX dubbing stage.
None of those checked by THX technicians measured the same, or sounded the same, even though they met THX specifications.

Just sayin....throw popcorn...no butter, please.

AES E-Library » Cinema Calibration and the X-Curve

Within both the SMPTE and the AES, committees are currently studying the question of the drafting of new standards for the calibration of dubbing theaters and cinemas. The current process has evolved with the changing technology since the introduction of the X-curve in the 1970s, often in an...

www.aes.org

AES Convention Papers Forum » Evaluation of the SMPTE X-Curve Based on a Survey of Re-Recording Mixers

The AES Forum is where our members get to interact with each other in between conferences and section meetings.

secure.aes.org

 

[Andysu]

sound mixers producers directors and most some cinemas are getting offensively deafening. and who are these mixers.

Also mentioned in the video 'the big lebowski' who is respected hollywood sound mixer?

Michael Barry

Skip Lievsay

Michael Barry	...	re-recording mixer
Allan Byer	...	production sound mixer
Benjamin Cheah	...	foley supervisor
Marko A. Costanzo	...	foley artist
Rick Freeman	...	dialogue editor
Lewis Goldstein	...	sound effects editor
Bradford L. Hohle	...	stereo sound consultant: Dolby
Kenton Jakub	...	adr editor
Frank Kern	...	foley editor
Peter F. Kurland	...	boom operator
Skip Lievsay	...	re-recording mixer / supervising sound editor
Kimberly R. McCord-Wilson	...	assistant sound editor (as Kimberly R. McCord)
Igor Nicholich	...	apprentice sound editor
Bruce Pross	...	foley mixer
Will Ralston	...	foley editor (as Jennifer Ralston)
Sam Sarkar	...	utility sound technician
Wyatt Sprague	...	assistant sound editor
Magdaline Volaitis	...	dialogue editor
Keenan Wyatt	...	boom operator
Allan Zaleski	...	apprentice sound editor
Cary Stratton	...	sound recordist (uncredited)

​

 

[Andysu]

I think film sound mixers studios are getting DEAFENING and mixing dangerously dB.

 

[Andysu]

sound mixers are getting Deafeningly dB offensive.

 

[Andysu]

I'm sick and tied reading about film sound mixers and dolby labs and THX saying the word "as director intended".

 

[ernestcarl]

Haven't watched a movie in one of these cinemas for almost a decade, I think. The last stage event I've attended before covid-19 hit was a Cirque du Soleil production. The live sound was really loud at certain moments, but was still quite tolerable and sounded very good to me for the most part. But what I absolutely hated were the unnecessary screaming from some fanatical audience members. I felt like I got more hearing damage from the mindless screams and whistles made by the people sitting directly behind me than from the live sound system played at maximum. Even though I love going to live events, I cannot tolerate some of the crazy crowds that come to these shows.

 

[abdo123]

Haven't watched a movie in one of these cinemas for almost a decade, I think. The last stage event I've attended before covid-19 hit was a Cirque du Soleil production. The live sound was really loud at certain moments, but was still quite tolerable and sounded very good to me for the most part. But what I absolutely hated were the unnecessary screaming from some fanatical audience members. I felt like I got more hearing damage from the mindless screams and whistles made by the people sitting directly behind me than from the live sound system played at maximum. Even though I love going to live events, I cannot tolerate some of the crazy crowds that come to these shows.

If you can't beat them join them!

 

[Andysu]

Haven't watched a movie in one of these cinemas for almost a decade, I think. The last stage event I've attended before covid-19 hit was a Cirque du Soleil production. The live sound was really loud at certain moments, but was still quite tolerable and sounded very good to me for the most part. But what I absolutely hated were the unnecessary screaming from some fanatical audience members. I felt like I got more hearing damage from the mindless screams and whistles made by the people sitting directly behind me than from the live sound system played at maximum. Even though I love going to live events, I cannot tolerate some of the crazy crowds that come to these shows.

That is why I walked out on these sound mixers at the cinema for that rubbish dolby labs atmos system and rubbish odeon cinemas isense is the most utter rubbish sound system I have listened too in 32 years. I will never go to a dolby labs cinema ever again, It was beyond dB DEAFENING!
Rubbish sound mix of film sound mixers didn't go low or powerful enough that it simply offended me for £16.99. SENSURROUND makes these overrated people that mix with dolby labs atmos, sound like a cheap scratchy vitaphone standards of mixing. I was £16.99 Offended!

I'm sure that the levels was well over 85dBA as I had to wear earplugs on/off for the rubbish sound mixers work fior 15 minutes, an I have had enough of their offensively deafening garbage trash mixes.

bournemouth bh2 odeon screen 10 isense atmos DEAFENING! do not go to this garbage trash odeon without wearing earplugs!

 

[Andysu]

october 2021 no time to die, offensive sound mixes mixing that dolby labs atmos trailer is highly dB offensive! It made me swear so that people in front behind and beside me, I hope I made their cinema day a lousy with my swearing. I was grossly offended by dolby labs atnmos and more odeon ads of skymovie garbage trash in my face and ears at beyond dB DEAFENING! cinema and odeon cinema is the worst garbage trash uk cinema chain.

 

[Andysu]

bournemouth bh2 odeon isense screen 10 garbage trash atmos screen with dB DEAFENINGLY offensive. This was for that disney marvel garbage trash, 'eternals' the ads are DEAFENING then I get that nicole kiddman in my face and ears really did Hissssssssssssssss me right offfffffffff! Then that Fing offensive dolby labs atmos then that offensiveness ads sky movies and some gaming video garbage trash. Media ads! Media ads! Media ads! then that fiing annoying, chris overton I was so close to pulling my shoe off and lobbing it at the rubbish projection screen. You don't tell me turn my phone off! So I stuck my middle finger up at odeon cinemas. All this becuase of the DEAFENINGLY OFFENSIVE odeon polices. Do not go to the 4k garbage trash cinemas today. odeon bh2 tries tho make oyt it has THX Sound System, not even near or close, odeon bh2 cinema installer sound engineers are garbage trash at their work. I never go to this garbage trash odeon bh2 ever again.

 

[Andysu]

This is soon after I walked out of that disney studios atmos dolby labs garbage trash. £16.99 is daylight robbery. I just walked into any other screen. well pay once get to see as many rest for free, but I couldn't care less. I wanted to get back home to a decent THX cinema not some garbage trash odeon engineers garbage trash that is set-up for DEAFENING dB levels. Also wanted to cuddle and pet my cats.
acoustics by sound engineers is rubbish at odeon bh2 in screen 6 front row has serious bad slap echo and seating is tatty looks like it been used by Cats for s scratching post and this dumpster cinema opened in 2016 and seating already looks tatty, I wouldn't use this odeon bh2 cinema for dog or cat shelter.

 

[audio2920]

But what I absolutely hated were the unnecessary screaming from some fanatical audience members

I've definitely been in that situation. So annoying!!

I think film sound mixers studios are getting DEAFENING and mixing dangerously dB.

Albeit a sweeping statement, I probably wouldn't disagree. As this thread started, "how loud is loud?"

Personally I don't mind the odd high SPL transient (like on the front of an explosion or gunshot up at peak digits) or even a massive sub hit that's up at 110 for a second. So long as you're not sitting up at 90dB+ with midrange harshness for minutes on end. Personal opinion.

I'd be very happy if someone would implement some loudness limit for cinema (probably based on Bs.1770) and ideally it would just be one "short term loudness" number on a meter that allowed transients and thus didn't require us to apply tons of compression/limiters to everything. What the window should be, I dunno (3 seconds? 30 seconds? 3 minutes?)

Problem is making a truly worldwide standard, then rolling it out to studios, then making sure cinemas adhered to it etc. Seems very unlikely "the world" would agree on it to begin with. Maybe one day though eh!?

Regarding the rest of your posts, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences and you think none of us are any good at our jobs.

I would say I find it strange that you've found Atmos, as a system, scratchy. It should have masses of LF capability and better room correction as standard than older systems. But I've not heard those specific mixes in Atmos, so maybe they are flawed, or maybe the replay system was poorly calibrated? Dunno. Either way, it's a shame.

 

[RayDunzl]

Theaters?

Stadiums!

Top 10 Loudest Sports Stadiums in the World - Hush City Soundproofing | Calgary's Top Soundproofing Experts, Commercial and Residential Applications

For sports fans, October is the best month! All 4 major North American sports are in full swing as we speak. The NFL is entering ... Read More

hushcitysp.com

 

[audio2920]

Also, it doesn't help that cinema acoustics can be poor, like you say. I wish there'd be more focus on acoustics in [Dolby] cinema spec in the future.

Theaters?

Stadiums!

Ouch!!

 

[Andysu]

I've definitely been in that situation. So annoying!!


Albeit a sweeping statement, I probably wouldn't disagree. As this thread started, "how loud is loud?"

Personally I don't mind the odd high SPL transient (like on the front of an explosion or gunshot up at peak digits) or even a massive sub hit that's up at 110 for a second. So long as you're not sitting up at 90dB+ with midrange harshness for minutes on end. Personal opinion.

I'd be very happy if someone would implement some loudness limit for cinema (probably based on Bs.1770) and ideally it would just be one "short term loudness" number on a meter that allowed transients and thus didn't require us to apply tons of compression/limiters to everything. What the window should be, I dunno (3 seconds? 30 seconds? 3 minutes?)

Problem is making a truly worldwide standard, then rolling it out to studios, then making sure cinemas adhered to it etc. Seems very unlikely "the world" would agree on it to begin with. Maybe one day though eh!?

Regarding the rest of your posts, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences and you think none of us are any good at our jobs.

I would say I find it strange that you've found Atmos, as a system, scratchy. It should have masses of LF capability and better room correction as standard than older systems. But I've not heard those specific mixes in Atmos, so maybe they are flawed, or maybe the replay system was poorly calibrated? Dunno. Either way, it's a shame.

It is simple. AUDIO LIMITERS have to be mandatory fitted to prevent the mix levels going above 80dB.
dub stages brag they have NC rating of 30 or 25 if that is so why mix at DEAFENING dB levels??? and cinemas brag about their acoustics and must have NC 30 25 rating so why DEAFENING sound polices that odeon are pushing. If all this NC rating is so good then no need for the stupid DEAFENING sound film mixes then, Huh! Huh!

 

[audio2920]

It is simple. AUDIO LIMITERS have to be mandatory fitted to prevent the mix levels going above 80dB.

Extreme opinion. But you're entitled to it!

IMHO I'm not sure a simple peak limit is a good solution as it forces loudness wars and is harmful to quality; I think leveraging modern loudness standards* would have more merit, personally.

A peak limiter set at -25dBfs to prevent peak transients peaks above 80dBC would mean even dialogue at medium level was well in to the limiter. Maybe that's OK to some people, but music, especially film score without "loudness wars compression" would likely have to be down around 65dB to avoid hitting an 80dB limiter.

I dunno, I take your point, but that is very, very low and I'm really not a fan of heavy limiting on music or film.

*edit: sorry, I mean modern loudness *measurements* from which a new standard could be developed with defined limits for such measurement.

 

[Andysu]

Extreme opinion. But you're entitled to it!

IMHO I'm not sure a simple peak limit is a good solution as it forces loudness wars and is harmful to quality; I think leveraging modern loudness standards* would have more merit, personally.

A peak limiter set at -25dBfs to prevent peak transients peaks above 80dBC would mean even dialogue at medium level was well in to the limiter. Maybe that's OK to some people, but music, especially film score without "loudness wars compression" would likely have to be down around 65dB to avoid hitting an 80dB limiter.

I dunno, I take your point, but that is very, very low and I'm really not a fan of heavy limiting on music or film.

*edit: sorry, I mean modern loudness *measurements* from which a new standard could be developed with defined limits for such measurement.

Yeah, I am entitled.
Music score is rubbish also. hans zimmer was garbage trash sounding in atmos at odeon bh2 garbage trash and that billy music I couldn't understand a single lyric with her mumbling. no time to die, was atmos garbage.

Extreme opinion. But you're entitled to it!

IMHO I'm not sure a simple peak limit is a good solution as it forces loudness wars and is harmful to quality; I think leveraging modern loudness standards* would have more merit, personally.

A peak limiter set at -25dBfs to prevent peak transients peaks above 80dBC would mean even dialogue at medium level was well in to the limiter. Maybe that's OK to some people, but music, especially film score without "loudness wars compression" would likely have to be down around 65dB to avoid hitting an 80dB limiter.

I dunno, I take your point, but that is very, very low and I'm really not a fan of heavy limiting on music or film.

*edit: sorry, I mean modern loudness *measurements* from which a new standard could be developed with defined limits for such measurement.

I nominate you to do a video, of your home theatre using an audio limiter and several movies. I have nominated you for the weekend to produce a video.