Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[Zensō]

Not if money is not an issue and you want a pretty pair of speakers that sound good and take up very little space.

My Wilson dealer is on a busy, up-market street where plenty of people would drop in and buy these speakers without a second thought. I suspect few if any would be audiophiles. They may well be installed by interior designers rather than by the end user. If something sells it proves there is a market for it. It is not for you or I to judge people who buy it, or why they buy it, or how they spend their money. If they didn't sell, Wilson wouldn't make them.

Yeah, we need more Veblen goods in audio.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

I believe KJ West started life many hours ago as KJ Leisuresound. Mail order. I bought my BC 1's from them.
If this lovely thread may be summarised by Quad being classified as "low end"! I am very happy with that. ( I must qualify by saying that I wasn't as keen on their dynamic speakers. Perhaps, once a BBC sounds man!)

 

[sarumbear]

Ok I can follow that view. But doesn't it leave a big question on how a speaker will preform in a real room? That dip are not minor. In this example from 1,5 to 3m listening distance you miss out on quiet a bit around the 100Hz region.

As I said in my earlier post. Because of so many reflections that dip will not be big. The main dip or peak will happen due to the standing waves in your room. As your room doesn't change they are always at the same frequency (called nodes). The only way to manage them acoustically is by using tuned bass traps. Or you can use active EQ.

What about software EQ? Is not working in that region?

Of course. Read @amirm's reviews and you will see that he use EQ all the time and he has one fixed at his room's major node.

Then is there a way to overcome this in the design?

Please clarify what do you mean by above?

 

[MrHifiTunes]

My house is full of active speakers, over 30 of them. If I had a 2-channel component system I might well have AHB2 as well. I don't care what components look like as they are all hidden way, so for me the main requirement is they have to be small. Even my speaker cables are hidden.

The vinyl revival makes active systems a problem, trying to get an analogue source into a digital system. Streaming should have been a massive boost for active audio systems, but many audiophiles seem resistant to streaming. I went to streaming in 2009 and haven't spun a CD since then.

I think you will find that the vast majority of consumer speaker manufacturers pay very close attention to aesthetics and design, but the vast majority have to be cost-conscious as well.

Convenience is something many audiophile as not looking for. They like to take the vinyl out of the sleeve...look at the inlay put it on the record player, etc... call it old fashion, tradition, ... but it is part of their enjoyment. Also collecting CD's/LP's.

You mentioned before that your wife choose the speaker. Did you consider sonus faber electra amator too? I would guess for looks people would prefer that one....if it match their interior.

 

[Xyrium]

Is Wilson playing a joke on us?
I must have missed the memo where this level of performance was acceptable for this kind of money.
A US$110/pair speaker, Neumi BS5, crushes this speaker!

Save your money...Buy the Genelec 8361A's instead.

They always did.... I remember lusting after the Watt/Puppy setup, but I'm glad I never sold the house to get them.

Of course, in 20 years, how will the Gennie's fair?

Thanks for including the step response Amir!

 

[MrHifiTunes]

As I said in my earlier post. Because of so many reflections that dip will not be big. The main dip or peak will happen due to the standing waves in your room. As your room doesn't change they are always at the same frequency (called nodes). The only way to manage them acoustically is by using tuned bass traps. Or you can use active EQ.

Ok I didnt catch that before. Will you not get an anomaly between direct and reflected sound at the listening position. You cancel out the big dip by reflected sound which has a certain time delay.

Of course. Read @amirm's reviews and you will see that he use EQ all the time and he has one fixed at his room's major node.

Please clarify what do you mean by above?

Well my assumption that they EQ the problem area by lifting the 115Hz region in the speaker design. (reflected energy has to be less then direct energy. otherwise they keep cancelling out each other all the time of course)

 

[sarumbear]

Ok I didnt catch that before. Will you not get an anomaly between direct and reflected sound at the listening position. You cancel out the big dip by reflected sound which has a certain time delay.

Yes you will and that is why ASR measurements show the reflections and the expected sum of them. Every room is different. You are now asking a question about how to acoustically treat a room. That is an altogether different topic.

Well my assumption that they EQ the problem area by lifting the 115Hz region in the speaker design. (reflected energy has to be less then direct energy. otherwise they keep cancelling out each other all the time of course)

You assumed wrong.

 

[heflys20]

No offense, but you seem determined to prove that that bass-boost is "competent" ( never mind that it contradicts their own measured specs and Amir eq'd the speaker to lessen its impact) speaker design. I gotta respect that.

 

[richard12511]

Measurements don't matter for sq, measurements not related to sq, it's all about what your ears like

Unfortunately, that's the sort of message this review sends

While that may be true for an individual listener (like Amir) listening sighted, I'd be willing to make a small bet that this thing would lose to an M106 or 8050 in a blind test with multiple participants.

 

[DSJR]

I buy from them because of their superb service, plus they are local. They are also opposite our favourite restaurant, where my wife had lunch today. You may have sold me a pair of Epos or JR149 way back when. A lot cheaper than Harbeth, I bought my son a Naim Mu-So Qb2 from them and he loves it. I understand they stopped selling Quad because Quad increased their product lines and KJ weren't prepared to stock everything, so it was all or nothing, and it ended up nothing.

I can't really challenge the Quad 'situation' but my dealer pal has been able to cherry pick without issue.. Mind you, the little Vena 2 wouldn't interest KJ these days and the same with the speakers they now sell with ribbon? tweeters. Back in my day, it was a chain of six shops selling everything from almost bargain basement to some then serious high end. The financial issues in 1975? (VAT increasing I remember but there was more) caused the UK audio industry to crash out and I was lucky to remain employed (I was young, too keen if anything and cheap most likely). I jumped ship to a large Linn-Naim dealership (these products sold themselves back then and still do to a degree) and KJ went to the doldrums until UK distributor Absolute Sounds became a must-have with Krell and ARC to start with. NO WAY am I criticising at all, but I do have to say (and it's relevant to this thread) that it's taken me until recently (really, it has) to even begin to understand how wealthy people often regard products like this. I worried with the £4k or so Krell 50S I had that once you get on this ladder, you need expensive 'matching' gear to fully 'accept' such products (Amir touched on this in his review I think).

 

[richard12511]

Like I posted in the Genelec thread we need more blind testing on the why we're hearing certain aspects of sound quality, and address them appropriately for things that trained listeners find meaningful instead of continuing to chase the 1% things that don't matter so much.

Agreed

 

[richard12511]

Are there any really fine measuring ‘high-end’ loudspeakers Magico perhaps, Revel…
Keith

Depends what you mean by high end. I wouldn't really consider Revel high end in the same way Magico or Wilson is. In the context of a Wilson speaker, there are a few brands with seemingly good objective performance. Vivid, Focal, Magico, YG Acoustics, B&O, and probably more that I haven't heard of.

 

[rammster]

I'm with you. While I do know some abbreviations/acronyms when I see them, often times I have to do a Google search to see what they mean and even then can't find out at times. I find it funny when someone makes a long post with hundreds of words and throws a few in it. I mean, if they have the time to make such a long post couldn't they take the time to type a few more words out instead of an abbreviation? LOL.

True, true. Almost 2 weeks I was wondering about that BS meaning, seeing it here and there across threads.
SQ, FR, BS and some more.
FFS got unexpected decryption, S is not sound ))

 

[Spkrdctr]

Unfortunately, that's the sort of message this review sends

While that may be true for an individual listener (like Amir) listening sighted, I'd be willing to make a small bet that this thing would lose to an M106 or 8050 in a blind test with multiple participants.

Hey! You guys have to remember, AMIR thought the bass was too much for his general listening. That does NOT mean it is too much for a person who likes bass heavy sound. There is no perfect speaker. If you listened to them at say 70 to 75 db and you thought "hey, that's great bass I hear and I like it" ,then this speaker is for you, well disregarding the price! Arguing or discussing about how Amir hears a speaker and what he thinks is fantastic may not be what anyone else likes. Others may want more treble for an "airy" sound, others may want a boosted 800 to 3k sound for amazing vocals. Look at the data and his opinion and say Gee, I do like a nice amount of bass. then go give whatever product that has that a listen. Or buy it and try it and return if not happy. The LEAST important part of the reviews are equating what Amir likes and what you may like, just look at the data. But his comments (subjective review) are helpful if he says "Yes, I noticed quite a bit of bass vs other small speakers are do not have much if any bass sound". That steers you right there to take a look at that speaker if you like bass. The devil is in the details.

 

[DWI]

Convenience is something many audiophile as not looking for. They like to take the vinyl out of the sleeve...look at the inlay put it on the record player, etc... call it old fashion, tradition, ... but it is part of their enjoyment. Also collecting CD's/LP's.

You mentioned before that your wife choose the speaker. Did you consider sonus faber electra amator too? I would guess for looks people would prefer that one....if it match their interior.

Sonus Faber is the go-to wife-friendly speaker. The one shown to her was the Olympic Nova III. She did not like the grille, which she thought were bits of string, not audiophile elastic. The dealer was surprised, because they are a pretty safe bet. He thought I would not like the sound, I don't know why.

There is no accounting for taste, which is why there are so many consumer loudspeakers.

 

[Laserjock]

Sonus Faber is the go-to wife-friendly speaker. The one shown to her was the Olympic Nova III. She did not like the grille, which she thought were bits of string, not audiophile elastic. The dealer was surprised, because they are a pretty safe bet. He thought I would not like the sound, I don't know why.

There is no accounting for taste, which is why there are so many consumer loudspeakers.

Did she know they’re Italian?

 

[rammster]

Others may want more treble for an "airy" sound, others may want a boosted 800 to 3k sound for amazing vocals

I wonder, would it be the perfect experience, if people came to a concert, everyone wore some kind of headphone and tuned live sound to their taste.

 

[Gorgonzola]

I wonder, would it be the perfect experience, if people came to a concert, everyone wore some kind of headphone and tuned live sound to their taste.

Might not be so bad -- I've been in some terrible auditoriums

 

[MaxBuck]

The existence of this speaker is an affront to reality.

Not to get hyperbolic or anything.

There seems to be a cadre of people here who apparently believe that personal taste shouldn't play any part in selecting audio equipment. That strikes me as nonobjective. The fact I personally wouldn't buy these things doesn't in any way mean they're not right for someone else (obviously well-heeled), nor that I wouldn't like listening to them.

 

[richard12511]

Does it not preform like mass market $1000 dollar speaker? Amir likes it more then than $2000 Revel M106.

Depends on the $1000 speaker in question

Objectively, there are $500-$800 speakers that outperform this speaker in most ways. These speakers are also bad in ways that aren't fixable with EQ, particularly no bass, and directivity errors. The Revel demolishes this speaker in terms of objective performance, and if one believes in the research of Floyd Toole(which I do), the Revel would also win a blind test with multiple listeners. I have the M106, so I'd actually love to test this for real with my speaker switcher and friends. Maybe I can find a Wilson dealer that could help?

The "blind" and "multiple listeners" are the key points, imo.

As much as Amir says he's immune to expectation bias because he listens to so many speakers and has no stake, I just don't buy it. His subconscious brain knows he's comparing a $10,000 speaker against a $2,000 speaker. For totally valid subjective impressions(IMO, Amir's impressions are valid in some sense), the comparison needs to be blind.

Then there's the possibility that Amir as an individual just prefers a speaker with these specific resonances and directivity errors. This is where the "multiple listeners" adds value. I truly believe that there will always be individuals who prefer something else, but research shows that the majority of the herd will prefer a speaker with attributes that this speaker lacks(bass below 100Hz, flat direct sound, no directivity errors).



To me, the most surprising thing that Amir said was:

TuneTot also had deeper and cleaner bass response than the M106

Given that this was after he reduced the 120Hz peak with EQ, what in the data could support this impression? Unless my eyes deceive me, the Revel has both deeper bass, and for the most part less distortion(if the distortion difference matters at all).