Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[Doodski]

It’s a 10-50t with a 40t chainring.
There’s some bloody steep climbs in the SF Bay Area…

Yes there are steep roads. I brought my in-line skates with me on the last visit to San Francisco and I wore out my outdoor brake in one skate around 11am.

 

[rdenney]

Individual outlier failures don't tell us that much. Automobiles last longer than ever despite being more complex and electronic. They are more reliable than they have ever been as well. Maintenance intervals are longer than ever, and less of it required. The electronic components must be reliable enough or none of this would be the case. The complexity means unusual "crazy" failures can occur that wouldn't in the past like the one you described, but they aren't the norm. Diagnostic systems which I think are still poorly developed nevertheless work well enough so that quite often they warn you of an impending failure before you are left on the side of the road.

Electronic ignition most certainly is more reliable and longer lived than mechanical. Electronic fuel injection despite its complexity is longer lived and more reliable than carburetors as well as working much better at what it does. Automobiles aren't even much more expensive inflation adjusted.

Yes, they last longer than ever, and automatic transmissions also last longer than they once did. But I never saw a manual transmission come in for more than repairing a leaky gasket or seal, unless the driver was drag racing the car. Clutches are a whole other thing, of course, but are relatively easy to service. Automatic transmissions rarely lasted as long as engines, and the standard life of an engine in those days was 100,000 miles. One can double those numbers now, but in my experience transmissions still don't last as long as engines.

I wish those sorts of failures weren't the norm, but I'm not sure the data support that. But he main issue is that the failures are entirely arbitrary and unrelated to the care and maintenance level of the vehicle. But no electronic failure should make it impossible for a person to get to a safe place and be able to turn off and secure the vehicle. The mechanic at the dealer where I had it towed identified the problem from my description immediately--it was certainly not the first time he'd seen it.

Electronic ignition certainly works better than mechanical ignition, and it's worth the occasional unexplained module failure in that case--the electronic ignition works enough better and solve enough problems of points to be worth that fault. Same with fuel injection.

Again, please stop implying that I'm a Luddite. I'm happy to go to electronic controls when they fulfill requirements related to real use cases. So far, you haven't described a real use case that leads to requirements electronic bicycle shifters fulfill but mechanical shifters don't. (Edit: Other than they are cool and technologically interesting, which isn't exactly a use case but is perfectly valid all the same.)

Rick "formerly worked for a first-tier automotive safety systems supplier" Denney

 

[rdenney]

Not sure how this pivoted to bikes, but I like it!

I recently put a SRAM AXS eTap mullet system on my bike and think it's fan-f*king-tastic.
Can't say anything about its reliability, other than it has been flawless over the 2 months since installation.
Strava tells me I average about 75 mi/wk...

I also won't comment about requirements it satisfies or doesn't - could not care less about the "get off my lawn" crowd...
I bought it and installed with little more reasoning than, "cool! I want one!".
Same thing lead me to put 650b carbon wheels on it too

Now that I say that "out loud", it sounds a lot like audio purchasing rationale...


View attachment 215719

"Cool I want one" is a perfectly good reason to try it. I hope it never fails you. Keep the battery charged.

Rick "whose issue has nothing to do with being old, but everything to do with often being the guy who has to fix other people's bikes on group rides" Denney

 

[rkbates]

Not sure how this pivoted to bikes, but I like it!

I recently put a SRAM AXS eTap mullet system on my bike and think it's fan-f*king-tastic.
Can't say anything about its reliability, other than it has been flawless over the 2 months since installation.
Strava tells me I average about 75 mi/wk...

I also won't comment about requirements it satisfies or doesn't - could not care less about the "get off my lawn" crowd...
I bought it and installed with little more reasoning than, "cool! I want one!".
Same thing lead me to put 650b carbon wheels on it too

Now that I say that "out loud", it sounds a lot like audio purchasing rationale...


View attachment 215719

Cool bike! The one thing missing is a rear tail light with built in radar linked to a Garmin. Far too technological and many components to fail, but seriously one of the best safety additions you can have. Detects cars approaching and blinks at an changing rate to try and attract their attention. Warns you on the Garmin of cars behind - you still check over your shoulder but you wait until clear before taking your eyes of the road to check behind. I'd feel naked without it now - 18 months without a hitch.

 

[Blumlein 88]

It’s a 10-50t with a 40t chainring.
There’s some bloody steep climbs in the SF Bay Area…

Come on man, can't you ride a fixie in SF? Man up dude!

These guys all ride fixies, and see what it did for their legs.

This guy is one of those that rides with lots of gears and unnecessary techno stuff.

 

[rkbates]

Electronic shifting simply cannot be as reliable as a good mechanical system. There are too many parts that can fail without warning even if built to military standards. Maybe it’s 11 speeds that require it, but I’ve managed to live happily without that, too.

Don’t exaggerate. I’m no Luddite, but in tens of thousands of miles of riding I’ve never missed shifts or had to limp home in a single gear because my shifting system failed. Maybe if I never maintained my bike mechanical systems would be less reliable, but I’ll bet electronic shifting is even more dependent on regular maintenance to keep it clean and adjusted. I have commuted by bicycle, using the bike I now use for gravel roads.

I do note that messengers who ride in dirty conditions so much every day that keeping up with maintenance do indeed use fixed-gear bikes for their reliability. For them, keeping the bike consistently clean is infeasible.

Disk brakes are another matter. They allow wheel sizes to vary without worrying about brake reach, and can use friction materials that work better than any rim pads. I don’t use them but I understand their design value, particularly for bikes targeted to dirt roads and paths, or wintry conditions.

Rick “show me the requirements verification” Denney

10 speed electronic for training and racing, 10 speed cable Campag for a spare (most agricultural mechanism ever designed, but super smooth, unbreakable and fully user serviceable), 7 speed cable steely just because, and hopefully a single speed belt drive when I can find the right one. I'm 'minding' 3 kids bikes for a friend, if I buy the single speed at the same time I relocate the 3 kids bikes I'm sure my wife will conclude the number of bikes has decreased instead of increased so I'll be in the good books.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Cool bike! The one thing missing is a rear tail light with built in radar linked to a Garmin. Far too technological and many components to fail, but seriously one of the best safety additions you can have. Detects cars approaching and blinks at an changing rate to try and attract their attention. Warns you on the Garmin of cars behind - you still check over your shoulder but you wait until clear before taking your eyes of the road to check behind. I'd feel naked without it now - 18 months without a hitch.

Have not heard of this, but it sounds like something to get.

 

[rkbates]

"Cool I want one" is a perfectly good reason to try it. I hope it never fails you. Keep the battery charged.

Rick "whose issue has nothing to do with being old, but everything to do with often being the guy who has to fix other people's bikes on group rides" Denney

Is the 5 km (mile?) rule international? Breakdown within 5km of the coffee shop and you're on your own!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Is the 5 km (mile?) rule international? Breakdown within 5km of the coffee shop and you're on your own!

3.1 miles. Seems a bit much. That is like an hour of walking. Not at all good if you have clip on cycling shoes.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Rick "formerly worked for a first-tier automotive safety systems supplier" Denney

And you still purchased Fords??? Sorry, couldn't resist yanking your chain a little bit. A chain not attached to electronic shifters of course.

 

[antcollinet]

Not sure how this pivoted to bikes, but I like it!

I recently put a SRAM AXS eTap mullet system on my bike and think it's fan-f*king-tastic.
Can't say anything about its reliability, other than it has been flawless over the 2 months since installation.
Strava tells me I average about 75 mi/wk...

I also won't comment about requirements it satisfies or doesn't - could not care less about the "get off my lawn" crowd...
I bought it and installed with little more reasoning than, "cool! I want one!".
Same thing lead me to put 650b carbon wheels on it too

Now that I say that "out loud", it sounds a lot like audio purchasing rationale...


View attachment 215719

That bike is way to clean

 

[antcollinet]

Come on man, can't you ride a fixie in SF? Man up dude!

These guys all ride fixies, and see what it did for their legs.

This guy is one of those that rides with lots of gears and unnecessary techno stuff.

Pretty certain that guy is a woman.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Pretty certain that guy is a woman.

Hard to tell when the rider uses gears and unneeded tech.

 

[dc655321]

That bike is way to clean

I run a tight ship, yo!

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Just read a letter where he bought an EV when he tried to get a charging station fitted it was refused. His house is on a looped electrical mains supply, he will have to have a new mains cable installed before one can be fitted.

 

[rdenney]

And you still purchased Fords??? Sorry, couldn't resist yanking your chain a little bit. A chain not attached to electronic shifters of course.

Yeah, I'm stupid like that.

Rick "but the alternatives at similar price points don't seem to be any better" Denney

 

[samsa]

Just read a letter where he bought an EV when he tried to get a charging station fitted it was refused. His house is on a looped electrical mains supply, he will have to have a new mains cable installed before one can be fitted.

Not sure I catch your point.

A Level-2 charger requires (depending on its capacity) a dedicated 50, 60 or even 100 Amp circuit. If your current electrical service won't accommodate that, you have 2 choices

1. Install it anyway, and risk a catastrophic electrical fire.
2. Have the power company come out and upgrade your service.

It's very uncommon for the bottleneck to be the actual service itself. More common (in older dwellings) is that you need to replace your main breaker panel.

But I imagine that "Customer wanted to install a Level-2 charger; had to replace his main breaker panel." is not much of a news story.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Not sure I catch your point.

A Level-2 charger requires (depending on its capacity) a dedicated 50, 60 or even 100 Amp circuit. If your current electrical service won't accommodate that, you have 2 choices

1. Install it anyway, and risk a catastrophic electrical fire.
2. Have the power company come out and upgrade your service.

It's very uncommon for the bottleneck to be the actual service itself. More common (in older dwellings) is that you need to replace your main breaker panel.

But I imagine that "Customer wanted to install a Level-2 charger; had to replace his main breaker panel." is not much of a news story.

The supply authorities will allow you to pay for a new single ended supply, sorry if I didn’t make it clear?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Not sure I catch your point.

A Level-2 charger requires (depending on its capacity) a dedicated 50, 60 or even 100 Amp circuit. If your current electrical service won't accommodate that, you have 2 choices

1. Install it anyway, and risk a catastrophic electrical fire.
2. Have the power company come out and upgrade your service.

It's very uncommon for the bottleneck to be the actual service itself. More common (in older dwellings) is that you need to replace your main breaker panel.

But I imagine that "Customer wanted to install a Level-2 charger; had to replace his main breaker panel." is not much of a news story.

Looped distribution isn't common around me, but was used in some older areas in the 1950's and 60's. Ones I've seen were where they looped every two houses together on each side of the street though one can loop a few customers or more. Usually those had 60 amp service and no you aren't allowed to just put in a 100 amp breaker box. Reading about the problem in some EV forums various power companies do different things. If it is just two houses, some will unloop and give you 120 amp service for free, but you may have to wait months for it to happen. Some especially if more than two customers are looped will make you pay for it and the cost can be quite high like $10-20K or more. Some will just say no you can't have the service changed. A few will let you charge at 40 amps if you only do it during off hours. So yes if you have a looped distribution you need to communicate with the power company first.

One option on a Tesla would be to have an electrician install any of the 240 volt 30 amp plugs (there are two or three such) which will charge at no more than 20 amps which is going to give you 22 miles per hour of charging. Tesla sells adapters and the car automatically adjusts charging rate to .67% of the plugs capacity. You might even go for one of the 50 amp plugs which is going to be limited to 32 amps by the car and charge during off peak hours (which is 32 miles per hour of charging). The car can be set to handle all of this for you.

 

[Doodski]