Youtuber "Toid" DIY models: Klipsch KPT-325 inspired VS JTR 212 inspired

[Nathan11]

Hello everyone!

I wanted to ask some questions that I came across now that I want to upgrade my front stage with 3 identical DIY speakers for both music and movies.

First option is

,

whereas the second option is

.


I’ve read every single comment on Toid’s Youtube on those 2 videos and I wonder which speaker design out of those two would be best (especially when it comes to providing massive amounts of output, because I usually turn my speakers to the side facing out to my garden when throwing a party with friends).

Is there a way to have the exact “stats” of those 2 sets of speakers, like “Maximum SPL@1-2meter”, mean sensitivity, and of course how low can they dig? I’m guessing that the woofer’s specs change when they get inside a box ported/sealed etc.

I’d appreciate any help.

 

[alex-z]

You would have to ask the creator for stats like max SPL and sensitivity.

Bass extension is a consequence of the enclosure used for the woofers. You can see the T/S parameters for yourself on the spec sheets and model a basic enclosure with VituixCAD or WinISD. Keep in mind these are PA woofers, even in a bass reflex cabinet they aren't meant to be run without a subwoofer.

As for which speaker is better, that will depend on your room. The MTM layout will naturally have a narrower vertical dispersion pattern. As for horizontal dispersion, the designer seems to have only used on-axis data for the crossover which is unfortunate. I would strongly recommend doing your own off-axis measurements and creating a proper crossover if you are going to invest this much money in DIY speakers.

An active crossover is definitely worth considering, this will give you a lot more flexibility in the design. Rather than having to purchase new parts if you want to change driver slopes or add a notch filter.

 

[Nathan11]

You would have to ask the creator for stats like max SPL and sensitivity.

Bass extension is a consequence of the enclosure used for the woofers. You can see the T/S parameters for yourself on the spec sheets and model a basic enclosure with VituixCAD or WinISD. Keep in mind these are PA woofers, even in a bass reflex cabinet they aren't meant to be run without a subwoofer.

As for which speaker is better, that will depend on your room. The MTM layout will naturally have a narrower vertical dispersion pattern. As for horizontal dispersion, the designer seems to have only used on-axis data for the crossover which is unfortunate. I would strongly recommend doing your own off-axis measurements and creating a proper crossover if you are going to invest this much money in DIY speakers.

An active crossover is definitely worth considering, this will give you a lot more flexibility in the design. Rather than having to purchase new parts if you want to change driver slopes or add a notch filter.

First of all thanks a lot for your reply.

I'm definitely going to ask the creator about those stats.

As far as the crossover is concerned, I thought that those speaker designs were proven and worked properly with instructions about everything (since he sells the plans for $20 and he says a high power crossover is included).

To be completely honest, I am so new to this DIY section. I'm only good with tools, woodworking etc but I lack knowledge about crossovers or box designing computer software. That is the reason I was looking for a proven simple DIY design (definitely 2-way, because 3-way would be even more complicated to me).

About money now, I don't mind dropping 1000-2000$ per speaker for my front stage as long as the speaker design is tested and the components (woofers/tweeters etc) are from quality materials.

Last but not least, they may be PA woofers but when it comes to "usable frequency response" the Eminence company specs that 15inch driver down to 39hz. Also, in their description they mention that someone would choose this woofer if carrying a subwoofer around is a hard task (I know this could be very well a marketing trick). But in room, my guess is that this driver could go down to 35-40hz no problem. And after these frequencies I already have two Monolith 13's to cross them over and in the near future I could go DIY for subwoofers as well.

 

[alex-z]

As far as the crossover is concerned, I thought that those speaker designs were proven and worked properly with instructions about everything (since he sells the plans for $20 and he says a high power crossover is included).

To be completely honest, I am so new to this DIY section. I'm only good with tools, woodworking etc but I lack knowledge about crossovers or box designing computer software. That is the reason I was looking for a proven simple DIY design (definitely 2-way, because 3-way would be even more complicated to me).

About money now, I don't mind dropping 1000-2000$ per speaker for my front stage as long as the speaker design is tested and the components (woofers/tweeters etc) are from quality materials.

Last but not least, they may be PA woofers but when it comes to "usable frequency response" the Eminence company specs that 15inch driver down to 39hz. Also, in their description they mention that someone would choose this woofer if carrying a subwoofer around is a hard task (I know this could be very well a marketing trick). But in room, my guess is that this driver could go down to 35-40hz no problem. And after these frequencies I already have two Monolith 13's to cross them over and in the near future I could go DIY for subwoofers as well.

Proven would be a strong word. You can see in his videos the usage of XSim, which only does on-axis response modelling. The modern day approach is having off-axis measurements of each driver, software like VituixCAD can then predict the horizontal and vertical radiation pattern with the crossover applied. This is a big deal because room reflections are a significant portion of what you hear.

That doesn't mean they will be bad speakers, just that I expect better from someone charging for build plans. For example, here you can see the performance of any many different waveguides. A handful of "Pro Audio" speakers like the JBL M2 have even been CEA-2034 measured and DIY cloned.

MTG Designs - Waveguide Shootout

Objective Tests / Measurements of Various Horns and Waveguides This project was started in 2013, then nearly abandoned for several years and finally restarted last year (2021). The idea is to test and provide various measurements on a wide range of waveguide and horn designs making it easier to

www.mtg-designs.com

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

JBL D2430K Measurements

I have been interested in the Project M2 DIY Thread for some time. I helped a friend install a fabulous home theater with 708i, but I have been fascinated by the M2. Recent reviews of the 708i were interesting, especially given my positive impressions of the speaker. Erin's review of the M2...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I don't consider 40Hz deep enough for movies, the vast majority have special effects below 40Hz, and some music genres do as well. Eminence is talking to their customers that are doing DJ/concert work, where playing below 40Hz isn't even attempted most of the time. Basically saying "hey guys, if your venue is only 50-100 people you can ditch the subs if you buy this 15 inch woofer".

 

[Nathan11]

Proven would be a strong word. You can see in his videos the usage of XSim, which only does on-axis response modelling. The modern day approach is having off-axis measurements of each driver, software like VituixCAD can then predict the horizontal and vertical radiation pattern with the crossover applied. This is a big deal because room reflections are a significant portion of what you hear.

That doesn't mean they will be bad speakers, just that I expect better from someone charging for build plans. For example, here you can see the performance of any many different waveguides. A handful of "Pro Audio" speakers like the JBL M2 have even been CEA-2034 measured and DIY cloned.

MTG Designs - Waveguide Shootout

Objective Tests / Measurements of Various Horns and Waveguides This project was started in 2013, then nearly abandoned for several years and finally restarted last year (2021). The idea is to test and provide various measurements on a wide range of waveguide and horn designs making it easier to

www.mtg-designs.com

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

JBL D2430K Measurements

I have been interested in the Project M2 DIY Thread for some time. I helped a friend install a fabulous home theater with 708i, but I have been fascinated by the M2. Recent reviews of the 708i were interesting, especially given my positive impressions of the speaker. Erin's review of the M2...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I don't consider 40Hz deep enough for movies, the vast majority have special effects below 40Hz, and some music genres do as well. Eminence is talking to their customers that are doing DJ/concert work, where playing below 40Hz isn't even attempted most of the time. Basically saying "hey guys, if your venue is only 50-100 people you can ditch the subs if you buy this 15 inch woofer".

Those JBL M2's also got my attention, Erin said that they could easily be an end game speaker for so many people.

I have really no idea though, what usage they are for. They're called "Master Reference Monitor", so is it like for studios? Are they as dynamic as the 2 options I linked on the main post?

The thing that those JBL's go down to 20hz in-room, is just crazy by the way...

An other thing, I couldn't find the drivers to clone the M2's here in Europe.