WiiM Ultra... Am I missing something?

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I am sure many here will argue tying yourself to Amazon Music is ignorant. You do you, just don't pretend you are getting better sound quality with that particular combination of components.

Do you have a point, perhaps with some evidence?

That just sounds like a lot of prejudiced opinion.

‘Tying yourself’ to one streaming service is something the vast majority of streamers do, outside perhaps some limited use of free services.

Very, very few people - a vanishingly small amount - pay for more than one streaming service.

 

[stringer]

So this really doesn’t answer either of the questions.

Firstly, okay I suppose there’s an implicit answer here, you can’t use Amazon with Roon anyway. I’d noted that it’s not so good if you can’t stream in native resolution from Amazon without WiiM, the defence that with Roon you can’t use it all isn’t the best argument I’ve ever heard.

Secondly, and for the third time, if you’re playing your music using a PC, how do you get 3-channel (L/R/Sub) outputs?

+1

I'm genuinely trying to follow and am quite interested, but still don't understand the proposed signal chain either.

 

[himey]

+1

I'm genuinely trying to follow and am quite interested, but still don't understand the proposed signal chain either.

It is done in software. JRiver is another. Someone can walk you through it but I doubt it will happen on this particular thread. The info is already out there.

 

[Brantome]

I am sure many here will argue tying yourself to Amazon Music is ignorant. You do you, just don't pretend you are getting better sound quality with that particular combination of components.

Oh, to be an ”audiophile” (whatever you take that to mean) you need to use Roon, Audirvana, Qobuz or Tidal (let’s not mention MQA, shall we?) and any other hi res streaming service is poorer quality, and smaller companies like those you champion got all the best source masters?

And for the record, I’m not tied to anything just pointing out the fallacies spouted by those who want to deride anything outwith their experience.

 

[stringer]

It is done in software. JRiver is another. Someone can walk you through it but I doubt it will happen on this particular thread. The info is already out there.

"It does it in software" is not a signal chain. How does the signal go from the USB out of my computer to the speakers? Why the opacity? It doesn't seem like I'm the only one confused. And it seems kind of pertinent in a thread where we are comparing the Wiim Ultra to other options. Do I need a certain kind of active speakers to make Roon or JRiver work?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Oh, to be an ”audiophile” (whatever you take that to mean) you need to use Roon, Audirvana, Qobuz or Tidal (let’s not mention MQA, shall we?) and any other hi res streaming service is poorer quality, and smaller companies like those you champion got all the best source masters?

And for the record, I’m not tied to anything just pointing out the fallacies spouted by those who want to deride anything outwith their experience…

…or beyond the general realms of logic.

 

[gwing]

How do you get 3 outs (L, R and Sub) from a PC?

And as for the Amazon thing, using the WiiM is the only known work around for the Amazon app.

The easiest way to get 3 channels is probably just using usb. Alternatively you could use a multichannel sound card with analog output or fit three optical outputs to it. If you search this forum for 'camilla dsp' that thread will give you an idea of what can be done.

 

[himey]

"It does it in software" is not a signal chain. How does the signal go from the USB out of my computer to the speakers? Why the opacity? It doesn't seem like I'm the only one confused. And it seems kind of pertinent in a thread where we are comparing the Wiim Ultra to other options. Do I need a certain kind of active speakers to make Roon or JRiver work?

The information is out there if you truly care, or you can start a new thread. There are many ways to skin this cat.

 

[Brantome]

"It does it in software" is not a signal chain. How does the signal go from the USB out of my computer to the speakers? Why the opacity? It doesn't seem like I'm the only one confused. And it seems kind of pertinent in a thread where we are comparing the Wiim Ultra to other options. Do I need a certain kind of active speakers to make Roon or JRiver work?

The WiiM Ultra will likely not be Roon Ready on release, but certication should follow in a few months as it did for previous models in their range (mini apart). It’s a streamer/ pre-amp so will need to be connected to an amp and speakers further down the chain.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

The easiest way to get 3 channels is probably just using usb. Alternatively you could use a multichannel sound card with analog output or fit three optical outputs to it. If you search this forum for 'camilla dsp' that thread will give you an idea of what can be done.

And right there, ladies and gentlemen, is why people will buy a WiiM.

‘Just use a sub’? And the crossover in the analogue realm, rather than the digital? And whilst some subs have some bass management, many don’t.

And the whole idea of “Just use a PC” is implicitly because you already have one, plug the USB out into a DAC, and away you go.

Buying (and installing) a multi-channel sound card, and buying two DACs to handle them, not to mention controlling from a PC interface (where the term ‘user-friendly’ is ever one you’ll hear from users) vs WiiM’s much lauded interface, is enough to put many off.

Plus, a PC is a PC. If you have one, it may not be where you want your hi-fi. If you want to buy another, then that’s going to cost more than a WiiM. And you won’t be able to control it in its entirety, start-to-finish, from your phone.

I spent years using a PC as a steamer, and it wasn’t home hi-fi, it was a bloody science and technology experiment every time you wanted to play Please, Please Me.

 

[gwing]

"It does it in software" is not a signal chain. How does the signal go from the USB out of my computer to the speakers?

Via USB DAC(s) or USB sound card .

Why the opacity? It doesn't seem like I'm the only one confused.

If you are expecting clear and detailed explanations on a wide variety of topics you'll probably do best starting a new thread dedicated to the topic. On a thread about the Wiim Ultra there is a limit to how much folks want the topic to diverge.

And it seems kind of pertinent in a thread where we are comparing the Wiim Ultra to other options. Do I need a certain kind of active speakers to make Roon or JRiver work?

No.

 

[stringer]

Via USB DAC(s) or USB sound card .

If you are expecting clear and detailed explanations on a wide variety of topics you'll probably do best starting a new thread dedicated to the topic. On a thread about the Wiim Ultra there is a limit to how much folks want the topic to diverge.

No.

So you can do everything with a PC and not buy a Wiim Ultra but you would still need a DAC and/or preamp to interface between the software and speakers? I'm trying to decide if I want to buy one of these or do something else. Figured the thread to ask the question in would be the one where people where already discussing the question.

It seems kind of redundant and superfluous to start a new thread where inevitably someone will say "why didn't you use the search function, we are already discussing that in the Wiim Ultra? Thread." So thought I would just ask for clarification here. The moderators feel free to move my question to a new thread if they feel that is appropriate.

 

[antcollinet]

PC will be more difficult to set up and use.

And then you are tying up a general purpose machine for a specific purpose.

I use a PC, but that is because I play music while I am using a PC. Or use a PC while I'm playing music - one of those things.

 

[stringer]

I have PC's setup for both of my systems. And then they go through a Wiim pro to an integrated amp with (poor) bass management for main setup. And into an old analog amplifier using a monitor as a DAC for my office setup. I'm looking to upgrade both systems and trying to figure out which links in the chain I need to upgrade. Not trying to maroon the thread or make anyone divulge any information they aren't comfortable with. Just evaluating the different options. JRiver seems like an interesting alternative. I'll look into it. Thanks so much.

 

[sthaus]

So this really doesn’t answer either of the questions.

Firstly, okay I suppose there’s an implicit answer here, you can’t use Amazon with Roon anyway. I’d noted that it’s not so good if you can’t stream in native resolution from Amazon without WiiM, the defence that with Roon you can’t use it all isn’t the best argument I’ve ever heard.

Secondly, and for the third time, if you’re playing your music using a PC, how do you get 3-channel (L/R/Sub) outputs?

I don’t use L/R sub out from PC but from my Amp or Pre , even if you are using a PC you still can get 5.1 or 7.1 or 2 (not just L/R and Sub 2.1) from Pc and depends on your Pc motherboard, I played 5.1 setup from my Pc from at least 20 years ago with Creative sound card (please don’t ask me how, because every guys with a PC they know how) .. Anyway ! I stop it from here because I think you have a limited resources case. Otherwise you would not ask some questions like that.

WIMM Ultra is just a streamer, if it fits to your purpose then just buy it. Personally, I like their software only. If people have no Pc or wanna eliminate PC, just simply in and out, Ultra might be the one for them. But for serious audiophile heads, they maybe just want more than that.

 

[sthaus]

I have PC's setup for both of my systems. And then they go through a Wiim pro to an integrated amp with (poor) bass management for main setup. And into an old analog amplifier using a monitor as a DAC for my office setup. I'm looking to upgrade both systems and trying to figure out which links in the chain I need to upgrade. Not trying to maroon the thread or make anyone divulge any information they aren't comfortable with. Just evaluating the different options. JRiver seems like an interesting alternative. I'll look into it. Thanks so much.

Some old amplifiers are better than new. In case of sound quality, you might need to buy a new amp or using external DAC than a Wimm build-in, if your speakers cannot handle below 50hz then you might need a good sub for bass enhancement. There are software and hardware upgrade. Software is like a management team, make your life much easier. In other hands, hardware just like your labours staffs, without them ..ehem ..

I heard Fosi V3 Mono or ZA3 are good and cheap amps (many pro tubers already review and demo it). Some cheap good dacs including Topping E30 II, E50 (transparent , punchy sound signature, ESS) or SMSL SU-1 (sweet warm sound signature AKM) or a complete dac amp like SMSL-DL 200. There are many cheap opt with great improvement in sound quality than onboard PC sound or Wiim dac. If you are happy with Wimm Pro sound signature (Texas Instrument 5121), than just use it without buying another DAC. or WIMM Pro+ with AKM4493SEQ and Ultra with ESS 9038 Q2M.

Geshilab dac is also great, custom design and US made!

Those above are not the best but cheap and provide an improvement in sound over just Wiim and Old amplifier !

Regards

 

[Brian Hall]

Have you heard about, audirvana, Roon, foobar, hqplayer, Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer !! Their apps are wisely used by audiophile.

For less quality music, you can choose Amazon, Apple, Spotify or Youtube

Amazon Music has the same quality as Tidal and Qobuz.

 

[sthaus]

Amazon Music has the same quality as Tidal and Qobuz.

View attachment 377084

Got it … ! My bad Zz

 

[Brian Hall]

WIMM Ultra is just a streamer, if it fits to your purpose then just buy it. Personally, I like their software only. If people have no Pc or wanna eliminate PC, just simply in and out, Ultra might be the one for them. But for serious audiophile heads, they maybe just want more than that.

The Wiim Ultra is a streamer, a dac, a preamp, an EQ and a headphone amp. I'm getting one as soon as Amazon has them available. It will replace several separate pieces of equipment in my office setup. The Wiim Amp was almost there but didn't include a headphone amp.

 

[gwing]

So you can do everything with a PC and not buy a Wiim Ultra but you would still need a DAC and/or preamp to interface between the software and speakers? I'm trying to decide if I want to buy one of these or do something else. Figured the thread to ask the question in would be the one where people where already discussing the question.

It seems kind of redundant and superfluous to start a new thread where inevitably someone will say "why didn't you use the search function, we are already discussing that in the Wiim Ultra? Thread." So thought I would just ask for clarification here. The moderators feel free to move my question to a new thread if they feel that is appropriate.

Yes, you will need that stuff and also the software of your choice to drive it as well. If you are interested mainly in listening to music rather than spend a lot of time learning and fiddling then I strongly recommend the Wiim route rather than a PC|.

To be clear I only started discussing PC systems so as not to leave the incorrect statement hanging that "you can't do this on a PC you need the Wiim". A PC or other computer driven system is ultimately more flexible and capable of doing more than a prebuilt product like the Wiim, but it is likely to be at least one order of magnitude more time consuming and complex to build, and likely more expensive as well, so it it is *not* the best solution for most folks. Actually that perhaps isn't fair - you can have a simple uncomplicated PC based system that is pretty easy but you can easily drift towards the whole hog with DSP, active speakers, multi channel and room correction and that is a very different place.