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Why Roon?

symphara

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Yeah, I know. I have a NUC and I'm listening to music through it right now (NUC/ROCK>RPi4/Ropieee>RME ADI-2 DAC FS>HD660S). I guess it just feels like Roon is a minor player in the larger audiophile scam that includes $5K power cords and $20K DACs.
That's not a good neighbourhood to find any audio-related product in, it's something to be mocked.

The subscription to play your own music though I find even more grating, combined with the insidious push for the support of their proprietary protocol.

MQA raises panic with just a minor music service and a handful of (expensive, usually Japan-import) CDs. Nobody seems to bat an eyelid at the alarmingly large (and growing) Roon-ready widespread compliance, whose logical endgame is to make us pay on a monthly basis for listening to our own music.
 

ahofer

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Yeah, I know. I have a NUC and I'm listening to music through it right now (NUC/ROCK>RPi4/Ropieee>RME ADI-2 DAC FS>HD660S). I guess it just feels like Roon is a minor player in the larger audiophile scam that includes $5K power cords and $20K DACs.
The Nucleus is i5, tho, or was when I compared and bought two NUCs. Current generation still cheaper with NUC. Plus, no upselling on useless audiophile digital interfaces.
 

Zensō

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The Nucleus is i5, tho, or was when I compared and bought two NUCs. Current generation still cheaper with NUC. Plus, no upselling on useless audiophile digital interfaces.
Yeah, I wouldn’t buy a Nucleus, they’re definitely overpriced. They’re for those who either can’t be bothered with setting up a NUC, or those who want a nicer looking box in their hifi stack. My NUC sits in a closet next to my router so how it looks is irrelevant. I also enjoy tinkering, so it was a fun project.
 
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rkbates

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...
I don't like cons. Paying several times the price of hardware because you know exactly what you're getting but like the label or the pretty case is one thing. Paying it because you believe their marketing hyperbole (and the friendly reviews in audiophile magazines) is something else.
I guess you don't own any Apple products then;)
 

Katji

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Roon certainly has its issues, and it's arguably overpriced, but calling it snake oil is a bit of a stretch. Snake oil implies a scam, and from what I can see, the claims Roon makes are for the most part verifiable and within the bounds of normal marketing.
It's not a stretch, it's just nonsense.

But then the response is a switch to the other matter, the Roon computer....

They also say "Nucleus is the ultimate appliance built for extreme audio quality" about their grossly overpriced NUC.

Note the use of the word "appliance" there - you can take it as a hint, to help you to understand why the Roon computer exists. - In short, because of market demand, and the only way it makes sense for Roon to be doing it is to make it expensive.
...Another clue: High-end Audio Consultants, rich clients.
 

elvisizer

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Last but not least, they want to lock you in with this Roon compatibility thing. So not only do you get utterly ripped off on hardware and software, but you need to make suboptimal buying decisions on the rest of your gear just to maintain compatibility with this bs.
<shrug> as I said before, they're selling the product like it's SAAS, hence the SAAS subscription pricing model. I bought the lifetime sub back when it was under $500 because I didn't want to pay that ongoing price. I still feel like $499 was too much really . . . .but for whole home streaming with upgrades forever it's not bad. And I'm now 3 years into using it, so the price keeps coming down every day. If the pricing model seems like a rip off for you, then don't buy it.
the nucleus might be expensive, but pre-built PC's always have a price premium attached to them. No one's forcing you to buy a nucleus anyway, run the core on whatever you want.
as far as compatibility . . . is roon not compatible with most USB dacs? Maybe I just got lucky with the 2 that I bought in the last couple years, but i never even checked if they were compatible before I bought them lol
 

Kal Rubinson

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as far as compatibility . . . is roon not compatible with most USB dacs?
I don't know any more than you to about the real data but I doubt it. Use of many not Roon-approved USB DACs simply need you to do a bit of a setup with Win, Mac or Linux. A suitable ASIO driver for Windows may also be needed. I've never had an issue.
 

elvisizer

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yeah, when I first got my mytek liberty to use at work (which I used with my home Roon core over private VPN, take THAT no WAN access lol) Roon didn't have that model in their database yet- all I had to do was set the max sample rate, MQA support, and DSD support manually.
 

Ron Texas

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I don't think Roon is in the snake oil category, but it's pricey for music playback software when something as good as foobar2000 is free. My understanding is Roon is unique in that it is able to integrate streaming with one's local music library. I suppose for someone with an expensive system another $500 is chicken feed.
 

Ralph_Cramden

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My understanding is Roon is unique in that it is able to integrate streaming with one's local music library.

Not unique. LMS 8.x does the same. Pretty sure Sonos has done it for years, too.
 

Bastia

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Sonos doesn't really integrate libraries the same way as Roon does. With Sonos you can combine them in the queue, play a song from Spotify after a song from your local library. But you have to pick them from separate 'folders' in the Sonos interface so to say. There is not one big library with local music and music from all your favourite services combined.

Plexamp actually does a similar thing as Roon. It combines your local library with Tidal. You can add songs from Tidal to your own playlists and add albums from Tidal artists to your library. There was some finicky stuff, where I had to register or connect my Tidal account to Plex to be able to use it this way, that didn't work the first time I tried it...
 

symphara

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The Lumin app has flexible playlist management and can combine, say, Tidal or Qobuz stuff with local stuff. I never use this feature because I’m an album listener. I pick an album, listen to it, then I go select another one.

I don’t actually want my playback app to merge my local library with the streaming subscription. I use my streaming subscription to get recommendations from the streaming service - I discovered that different services give very different recommendations. So what I do is keep a streaming service for a while, collect the recommendations I like, then I buy them on physical media and enhance my collection. Then I stop the streaming service and listen to my own library for a few months, until I feel like having something new again. Rinse and repeat with another streaming service. I feel this maximizes the search space.

When I heard about Roon, I looked up its feature set and I thought it deserves at most a shoulder shrug. I don’t need a UPnP wrapper, and the merging of Tidal/Qobuz with my local library is undesirable (no idea if it can be turned off). I don’t need a third party product to get “bit perfect” reproduction for my local music - NAS to amp or NAS to streamer/DAC is as bit perfect as it gets.

So normally I wouldn’t comment on it at all. Then I discovered the ridiculous subscription payment model and the laughable Nucleus hardware, both indicating what I consider to be a toxic, unbelievably greedy business model. I don’t like at all that such a company is successfully pushing its proprietary protocol into amps, streamers, processors and receivers, and, under the guise of uniform convenience aims to make us monthly subscribers to play our own music.
 

Daiyama

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We really got it now, that Roon is not for you.
Can you imagine there are people who completely do not think in „albums“ when listen to music or do not have a physical music library at all and want to use Tidal and Qobuz in one application or that others have several endpoints around the house and want to use DSP for each of them and do not want to use dedicated DSP devices for each end point (for them Roon can be a bargain).
So there are many other reasons why people using Roon and find it worth the price.
I actually use LMS but find Tidal integration at best quite mediocre and I am missing DSP capabilities. I could sell my RME ADI-2 DAC and buy a lifetime Roon licence and would have DSP on all of my endpoint „for free“. ;-)
 

symphara

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We really got it now, that Roon is not for you.
Can you imagine there are people who completely do not think in „albums“ when listen to music or do not have a physical music library at all and want to use Tidal and Qobuz in one application or that others have several endpoints around the house and want to use DSP for each of them and do not want to use dedicated DSP devices for each end point (for them Roon can be a bargain).
So there are many other reasons why people using Roon and find it worth the price.
I actually use LMS but find Tidal integration at best quite mediocre and I am missing DSP capabilities. I could sell my RME ADI-2 DAC and buy a lifetime Roon licence and would have DSP on all of my endpoint „for free“. ;-)
This is a discussion about Roon and I don't expect to convince anybody who's into it. It's the people sitting on the fence and wondering about it, who might benefit from a different viewpoint.

How do you find LMS? What do you use it for?
 

Daiyama

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That is fair enough, but your repeatedly argue as if Roon is the devil.
I agree with you, that for your usecase Roon is way to expensive and there are equal (or even better) options, but definitely cheaper ones. But I also think that people are able to see that by them self. Roon is a niche product and expensive and usually chosen after careful considerations by people who have some idea what the want/need and can/want spent on this.

I use LMS since about 10 years, previously to distribute my music collection to different rooms. One is my living room with my main speaker system which has ist’s own room correction (Genelec 8351A+GLM). Secone is my bedroom (Genelec 8010+Adam sub8) which requires heavy EQing due to bad positioning options, which is done by an RME ADI-2 DAC, which is for a bed room probably a bit over powered. ;-) Third is my headphone station which has no DSP at the moment, but where I would like to have a DSP and balanced output (so RME is not an option here). I started Tidal a year ago and find it very helpful to discover new music, but it takes quite a while until Tidal gives you good suggestions (for me it was nearly about 8 weeks or so, so this on and of works for you?). Tidal integration into LMS lacks because the important categories of Tidal (“New albums because you listen to .....” etc.) are not shown and I have to switch to the tidal app and add it there to my favourites. So I think, I am quite the perfect use case for Roon, but still hesitate because of pricing scheme. Audrivana could have been an option, but they also switch to a monthly payment scheme. I could live with the price now, but who knows where prices will go and I fear there will be now other alternatives (I just opted out of Netflix because I find it to expensive, luckily there are other options for me).
 

Dj7675

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Then I discovered the ridiculous subscription payment model and the laughable Nucleus hardware, both indicating what I consider to be a toxic, unbelievably greedy business model.
A very small percentage of people use the Nucleus for the server hardware. There is no need to purchase it. Their software runs on just about anything. It is just an option for those that have no desire to build something. They provide the software to install on whatever hardware you want. As with all things, if you find value in what they offer you purchase or subscribe. If you don't find value, then don't purchase or subscribe. But to call it snakeoil, toxic, or greedy is ridiculous IMHO.
 
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Jimbob54

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A very small percentage of people use the Nucleus for the server hardware. It runs on just about anything. It is just an option for those that have no desire to build something. They provide the software to install on whatever hardware you want. As with all things, if you find value in what they offer you purchase or subscribe. If you don't find value, then don't purchase or subscribe. But to call it snakeoil, toxic, or greedy is ridiculous IMHO.

Agree- I am a fan of what the product does and offers and view it as pretty non invasive . But it most definitely stings to have to pay the amount they ask- it is overpriced and I pay it grudgingly.

A one of payment of £100 or so for the software and a small ongoing licence fee would be preferable- and then optional major upgrades for additional money would be my preference.
 

Ralph_Cramden

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They provide the software to install on whatever hardware you want.

...unless you want to install it on a Raspberry Pi, like your LMS instance runs on, perfectly happily...
 

Dj7675

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Agree- I am a fan of what the product does and offers and view it as pretty non invasive . But it most definitely stings to have to pay the amount they ask- it is overpriced and I pay it grudgingly.

A one of payment of £100 or so for the software and a small ongoing licence fee would be preferable- and then optional major upgrades for additional money would be my preference.
Cost is definitely a consideration in weighing the "Is it worth it". I did the lifetime at $499. I just know that since I purchased it I listen to more music than ever before and find more interesting things to listen to than ever before. And to top it off, I love how it looks and works. I also understand that many will have no need for what it does, how it works, or how much it costs...
 

Andrew s

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I decided to try Roon on a whim. I was getting back into listening to music and found my NAS hard to navigate with the Cambridge app that went with the streamer I had.

After adding Qobuz as well it has transformed my listening with the linked albums opening up a whole new worlds of content.

I have added a new Stack Audio Link II bridge and NUC 7i Roon Rock to free up my Surface pro and simplify the wiring.

I admit to not researching alternatives as it just fits my needs and I can afford it.

Regards Andrew

PS just to show how shallow I can be all my kit has matching blue LEDs, heven!
 
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