Why does my music start sounding crappier once I go past 70db on my AVR ?

[Deleted member 48726]

When I referenced ear splitting, I was referencing when I cranked it up and was recording 110db peaks which put the average level in the mid 90 db range. I am sure that there are those that find that comfortable, I can't take it. I had some explosives go off very close to me when I was younger and as a result have had tinnitus since I was 12, which unfortunately has gotten significantly louder in the last 2-3 years (I am going on 50). I am also sensitive to loud volume levels, if I go to a bar with live music or concert, I have to wear earplugs, or it is painful. Even listening at my reference level of 78db average, if I do for more than about 30 minutes, I pay for it with loud ringing the rest of the day. Getting older sucks!!!!!

Oh, well 95 dB avg. is quite a different thing that 85. I missed that reference.

 

[CDMC]

Not from your system but lose amplifier close to clipping with THD of 10% and overdriven speakers but not too much with let's say 5% THD in lower bass region or if you wish this thread case.

Ahh, you are referring to the OP. Yes, I agree it sounds like he is hitting the limits of speakers and/or amp and likely hearing very high distortion levels. Although based on some people I hear cranking their car stereos, some don't even notice 50%+ distortion.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Ahh, you are referring to the OP. Yes, I agree it sounds like he is hitting the limits of speakers and/or amp and likely hearing very high distortion levels. Although based on some people I hear cranking their car stereos, some don't even notice 50%+ distortion.

If it's merely a semi serious car audio system I bet that it has plenty of headroom and not much distortion so I don't think you are right about that.

 

[ZolaIII]

Yeah, but I wouldn't worry too much about the bass levels as it's a rare phenomenon to have hearing loss in low frequencies anyway.

It's not rare but that's usually temporary one. When I whose young I had a friend who did like to over exaggerate with car audio. Had 18 inch subwoofer in pore S package Golf. Car literally shaked and bounced when he crunch it up with 125 dB peaks and 110 dB averaged. He did get a minor permanent demage, which whose severe at the time but he stopped and it thankfully recovered trough time. He didn't go that loud when we drive but it whose in 90's average range usually.

 

[EDMoser]

Like others have mentioned get a subwoofer or two, then learn how to set a high pass filter of 60Hz or higher in your AVR. Everything will sound much cleaner - especially at higher volumes.

 

[CDMC]

If it's merely a semi serious car audio system I bet that it has plenty of headroom and not much distortion so I don't think you are right about that.

No, talking about those you hear driving around, stock system turned up all the way, speakers distorting with some completely blown, but seemingling oblivious to what is going on.

Serious car audio guys hit 125db plus all day long cleanly. Heck, the upgraded basic system in an older car I have with 5.25 components a 5 channel helix amp (I think 60x4 + 250 x1) and a 12” sealed sub will hit 110db plus easily in the bass because of cabin gain.

 

[ZolaIII]

When I referenced ear splitting, I was referencing when I cranked it up and was recording 110db peaks which put the average level in the mid 90 db range. I am sure that there are those that find that comfortable, I can't take it. I had some explosives go off very close to me when I was younger and as a result have had tinnitus since I was 12, which unfortunately has gotten significantly louder in the last 2-3 years (I am going on 50). I am also sensitive to loud volume levels, if I go to a bar with live music or concert, I have to wear earplugs, or it is painful. Even listening at my reference level of 78db average, if I do for more than about 30 minutes, I pay for it with loud ringing the rest of the day. Getting older sucks!!!!!

Sorry to hear that. I guess I got lucky (so far at least). As I had bean close to explosions as a kid (throw civil war), even before that had ear inflammatory process more than cuple of times thanks to tight ear chenels, worked a lot on stage sound systems when I whose young and did mixing and critical listening trough headphones on rather high levels (mid 90's average) but not for a prolonged periods for quite some times to let's say cuple year's back. On last detail physical hearing check about little more than year ago I did very good and up to 17 KHz (we did brother spectrum than classic audiogram after having discussion about their measurement equipment capabilities in bothom sub bass spectrum, actually it whose fun). I do get tinnitus rarely when I catch severe inflammatory process but that's still very rare I guess it will become more frequent when I cross 50 in cuple of years.

 

[CDMC]

Sorry to hear that. I guess I got lucky (so far at least). As I had bean close to explosions as a kid (throw civil war), even before that had ear inflammatory process more than cuple of times thanks to tight ear chenels, worked a lot on stage sound systems when I whose young and did mixing and critical listening trough headphones on rather high levels (mid 90's average) but not for a prolonged periods for quite some times to let's say cuple year's back. On last detail physical hearing check about little more than year ago I did very good and up to 17 KHz (we did brother spectrum than classic audiogram after having discussion about their measurement equipment capabilities in bothom sub bass spectrum, actually it whose fun). I do get tinnitus rarely when I catch severe inflammatory process but that's still very rare I guess it will become more frequent when I cross 50 in cuple of years.

Some of it is just luck of the draw. I have been careful with my hearing and exposure. Always used ear protection when doing things like shooting, using blowers, chainsaws, etc. Despite that, I seem to have some hearing loss in my left ear that has shown up on the past couple of years. Then you see people that spend their lives around loud things that are seemingly fine. Such is life.

 

[hnash53]

Seems to me that the original poster has been overwhelmed with all of the suggestions/admonitions...7 pages of it. Plus, much of this thread has gotten way off track. If it was me, I'd be lost.

 

[ZolaIII]

Seems to me that the original poster has been overwhelmed with all of the suggestions/admonitions...7 pages of it. Plus, much of this thread has gotten way off track. If it was me, I'd be lost.

Why? It's as simple as get a subwoofer or better two of them if you want to listen that loud and improve things up, cerfully read the AVR manual to properly set them up, cross tham at 100 Hz and engage the built in room correction according to manual. It's not exactly a high philosophy. Actually it's simples way there is to do it, it won't happen by it self you at least need to put that much effort to it. Hard part whose figuring out what whose actually happening with out proper feedback. We do have a right to have a little bit of fun afterwards we settled that down.

 

[Seany]

Okay after reading and thinking about it, I'm just not sure I want a subwoofer or even two of them for that matter. Plus I don't have the room for them, I very much dislike clutter and I've seen people setup before all lined up against the wall and I don't like that look, plus it's more complicated. Also I'm not a bass head. But I do agree I need more bass than what a 6.5" bookshelf's can give me.

One thing I've learned is that I need more clean room filling sound I want something that will play clean up to 80-85 instead of only about 76db and 6.5" bookshelf isn't cutting it. Many have suggested I need to get bigger speakers and keep the AVR, or at least get bigger speakers first and then see. Obviously I need to go with tower speakers or bigger bookshelves that have 8" woofers. I want to be blown away but not overkill. So if you think any of the following speakers are too big for my living room or there not a good match for someone sitting only 9 feet away let me know. Specs for my living room area is in my post #83. The thing is if I do as some of you want and just get subs and keep my 6.5" elacs what if then I'm still not satisfied somehow and I'm up still buying bigger speakers and that those new bigger speakers don't need a sub and I've already have the subs I'll be pissed. I don't want to continue rebuying stuff to replace over and over. I'm thinking of budgeting around $2000-3000 for towers or bigger bookshelves that have a 8" woofers. Is what I'm saying have any merit about the subs ?

Maybe something like the Wharfedale LINTON Heritage (6 ohms sensitivity: 90 dB) I like it's sound sig according to reviews a warmish smooth sound. I want something that will play good with older recordings like older Metallica stuff. There's also the Polk Audio Reserve R700 (8 ohms sensitivity: 88 dB) I guess in the end will my AVR Onkyo TX-NR6100 do these either these speaker options justice ?

 

[LouB]

Seems to me that the original poster has been overwhelmed with all of the suggestions/admonitions...7 pages of it. Plus, much of this thread has gotten way off track. If it was me, I'd be lost.

Welcome to ASR

 

[LouB]

Okay after reading and thinking about it, I'm just not sure I want a subwoofer or even two of them for that matter. Plus I don't have the room for them, I very much dislike clutter and I've seen people setup before all lined up against the wall and I don't like that look, plus it's more complicated. Also I'm not a bass head. But I do agree I need more bass than what a 6.5" bookshelf's can give me.

One thing I've learned is that I need more clean room filling sound I want something that will play clean up to 80-85 instead of only about 76db and 6.5" bookshelf isn't cutting it. Many have suggested I need to get bigger speakers and keep the AVR, or at least get bigger speakers first and then see. Obviously I need to go with tower speakers or bigger bookshelves that have 8" woofers. I want to be blown away but not overkill. So if you think any of the following speakers are too big for my living room or there not a good match for someone sitting only 9 feet away let me know. Specs for my living room area is in my post #83. The thing is if I do as some of you want and just get subs and keep my 6.5" elacs what if then I'm still not satisfied somehow and I'm up still buying bigger speakers and that those new bigger speakers don't need a sub and I've already have the subs I'll be pissed. I don't want to continue rebuying stuff to replace over and over. I'm thinking of budgeting around $2000-3000 for towers or bigger bookshelves that have a 8" woofers. Is what I'm saying have any merit about the subs ?

Maybe something like the Wharfedale LINTON Heritage (6 ohms sensitivity: 90 dB) I like it's sound sig according to reviews a warmish smooth sound. I want something that will play good with older recordings like older Metallica stuff.

Yes, if you get bigger speakers (I'd just buy the JBL L100 classics & be done) you will not need a sub. if you incoraparte a sub using your small speakers you should have hi pass/low pass filter on your amp.

 

[antcollinet]

Hard to imagine that at 70dB any amp would have issues....

70dB what?

He is looking at 70dB on the volume indicator, not on any SPL reading. On it's own it means nothing. His later "measurements" (using a phone app) are suggesting 95dB + SPL.

I've made this point at least 3 times now.

 

[dlaloum]

70dB what?

He is looking at 70dB on the volume indicator, not on any SPL reading. On it's own it means nothing. His later "measurements" (using a phone app) are suggesting 95dB + SPL.

I've made this point at least 3 times now.

I still contend (partly based on my own experience with the same AVR) that the issue here is not power, but current....

and many of the responses don't take that into account!

 

[ozzy9832001]

OP,

How big is the room your using this in? And how far away are you from the speakers?

Your speakers should be more than plenty for a small to mid sized room to hear well at listening position. However, in an untreated room even in the nearfield, it maybe too much energy and causing a lot of gain in accordance to your room modes.

If your like 30' away, then yeah, the speakers won't be able to output enough clean sound to hear it at a "reasonable" level.

 

[CDMC]

70dB what?

He is looking at 70dB on the volume indicator, not on any SPL reading. On it's own it means nothing. His later "measurements" (using a phone app) are suggesting 95dB + SPL.

I've made this point at least 3 times now.

Maybe now someone will notice!!!! It is important.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Some of it is just luck of the draw. I have been careful with my hearing and exposure. Always used ear protection when doing things like shooting, using blowers, chainsaws, etc. Despite that, I seem to have some hearing loss in my left ear that has shown up on the past couple of years. Then you see people that spend their lives around loud things that are seemingly fine. Such is life.

Keep in mind most people will tell and appear that's everything is well and they are doing well. Most have facades like that.

 

[CDMC]

One thing I've learned is that I need more clean room filling sound I want something that will play clean up to 80-85 instead of only about 76db and 6.5" bookshelf isn't cutting it. Many have suggested I need to get bigger speakers and keep the AVR, or at least get bigger speakers first and then see. Obviously I need to go with tower speakers or bigger bookshelves that have 8" woofers. I want to be blown away but not overkill. So if you think any of the following speakers are too big for my living room or there not a good match for someone sitting only 9 feet away let me know. Specs for my living room area is in my post #83. The thing is if I do as some of you want and just get subs and keep my 6.5" elacs what if then I'm still not satisfied somehow and I'm up still buying bigger speakers and that those new bigger speakers don't need a sub and I've already have the subs I'll be pissed. I don't want to continue rebuying stuff to replace over and over. I'm thinking of budgeting around $2000-3000 for towers or bigger bookshelves that have a 8" woofers. Is what I'm saying have any merit about the subs ?

Maybe something like the Wharfedale LINTON Heritage (6 ohms sensitivity: 90 dB) I like it's sound sig according to reviews a warmish smooth sound. I want something that will play good with older recordings like older Metallica stuff. There's also the Polk Audio Reserve R700 (8 ohms sensitivity: 88 dB) I guess in the end will my AVR Onkyo TX-NR6100 do these either these speaker options justice ?

You are missing that you are not at 76db, you are, by your own measurements hitting in the mid 90 db range. The number on your receiver is just that, a number, it tells you nothing, except you have turned it up louder or quieter. It does not tell you if you are clipping, it does not tell you if your speakers are distorting, it does not tell you if you are using 5 watts of power or 100 watts.

So all that said, given your statement you don't want to use subwoofers and would rather have floor standing speakers, I am going to let you in on some easy science: Hoffman's Iron Law- 1) Bass Extension, 2) Efficiency, 3) Small Enclosure, pick two. To maximize the efficiency of your systems (i.e. lessen the chance you need to get a bigger receiver or amplifier) and get good bass levels, the larger the enclosure the better. To get what you want, I would skip past the Wharfedale and like another poster suggested, look at something like the JBL L100, with its 12" woofer and relatively high efficiency.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

OP,

How big is the room your using this in? And how far away are you from the speakers?

Your speakers should be more than plenty for a small to mid sized room to hear well at listening position. However, in an untreated room even in the nearfield, it maybe too much energy and causing a lot of gain in accordance to your room modes.

If your like 30' away, then yeah, the speakers won't be able to output enough clean sound to hear it at a "reasonable" level.

One more?? -READ THE THREAD not just the OP!